Angel, Demon or Psychopath?

What is a psychopath?* Most people generally think this is the serial killer, pedophile, rapist or baby killer. Mostly however, these extreme expressions do not manifest so close to home, but a psychopath can operate closer to us than we realize. *UPDATE 2015. I wrote this before I knew about Archons, weitiko mind parasites, psychic vampires, dark-cupid relationships etc etc.

I don’t think now that you can tell if someone is an actual psychopath by looking at the birth chart. But I DO think entities may target certain individuals who tap into powerful magical stars. The entities can then use the subjects as puppets for their own sorcery. Channellers beware! Difficult natal aspects that show childhood wounding could also be weak entry points for these entities.

Neptune transits to any of the planets below could also facilitate these “walk ins”. This is why drug use is not recommended during Neptunian transits, it basically opens the flood gates! I also have to add, I’m not saying that if you have suffered abuse and you have wounds because of that, that archons can enter and you then become a psychopath. No certainly not!

This is such a complex subject, whole books have been written about it. I’m only opening a discussion. But I appreciate this is extremely sensitive subject matter. We ALL have varying degrees of possession/infection, this society makes us that way. But there are ways of clearing ourselves, it just takes effort, a willingness to learn about what you are dealing with and patience.

Statistics state that 85% of psychopaths are men. But this figure is most probably not a true statistic due to the fact women’s psychopathic behaviour is not so overtly violent and far more insidious. Basically women do not get caught! When they go as far as to take a life, it is generally for material gain, otherwise they tend to harm those physically weaker than themselves which sadly in most cases is their own children.

A true psychopath cannot be cured. It is a brain deficiency which you can see under an MRI scan. They are born without empathy and their prime motivation is survival. They get an adrenaline rush from exploiting people and getting away with it. They have to win at all costs, whether it is conning someone out of money, bedding someone else’s wife, or having the last word.

These people have no real creativity, so tend to plagiarize; they don’t know who they are so the only way they can gain potency in their lives is by sucking the life (sometimes literally), money or ideas out of someone else.

Psychopathic traits

Parasitic lifestyle, no remorse, no empathy, constantly blaming others for their misfortune, over the top emotional reactions out of proportion to the event, blowing hot and cold, constant lying, crying wolf, abnormally high or low sex drive, thinking the world owes them a living, delusions of grandeur, “poor-me” syndrome, fantastically charming, the use of “love bombing” and flattery, manipulative techniques, chameleon -like ability to be what ever you want them to be, fake vulnerability, ability to remember small details from the past and then use them against you to get their own way, short attention span, easily bored, feed on emotional dramas.

Psychopaths are incredibly clever and are master tricksters. They get away with so much because those who have had the misfortune to fall in love with one are just too embarrassed to warn others. So the psychopath will go onto its next victim and do the same thing all over again. I went through my selection of extreme psychopaths and noted which stars and aspects came up again and again. Because my samples were so extreme, I had less of the charming Neptunian influence which you would expect from such a deceptive lot and more of the Pluto/Uranus. Neptune would come into it more with addicts. Below are my findings in order of frequency. There seemed to be generally more conjunctions, oppositions, squares and trines than sextiles and quincunxes. But there were many striking aspect patterns as you will see later.

Dark Stars & Planets

psychopath-astrology-1PLANETS: As expected, Moon/Pluto tops the list, followed by Black Moon Lilith in aspect to the AC, interestingly this was mainly by trine and conjunction. Black Moon Lilith possibly rated so highly however because I looked for both true and mean Lilith. Both featured heavily. Out of the Liliths the highest score was with Venus ! This was followed in order of frequency by Lilith with Eris, Sun, Moon, Mars, Uranus, Saturn, Pluto and Ceres.

After the Liliths we get Mercury in aspect to Eris (which was one I hadn’t expected), Unaspected Sun, Moon/Eris, Moon/Uranus, Sun/Pluto, Sun/Uranus (All trines except one square), Sun/Ceres (Mainly squares) and Venus/Saturn (Hard aspects). I noticed very tight Ceres/Saturn and Ceres/Neptune seemed to come up a lot too. Another thing I noticed a high frequency of Venus conjunct Mars, they tended to be on powerful or darker stars and Sun or Moon opposite Saturn. This is not definitive research. I would’ve liked a bigger sample. But this is a start. The worrying frequency of Eris warrants further investigation.

STARS: The top scorers were all in Scorpio! Lesath  (24SAG01) the  stinger was tops and mostly showed being conjunct Lilith, Mercury and Ceres which was interesting since both Mercury and Ceres I would regard as being medicinal planets. Poisoning and toxic people spring to mind. Acrab (03SAG1) and Dschubba (02SAG34) next. These 2nd magnitude stars are in the head of the Scorpion and both sit next to each other on the ecliptic so they are very influential. I saw them time and time again. The Sun, Moon and Lilith came up strong with these.

Then we get the expected baddies “Evil” twin Pollux (23CAN13) in Gemini tended to show up on the angles and Algol ( 26TAU10) on Medusa’s head. After that in order of frequency; Antares (09SAG46) in Scorpio, Zosma (11VIR19) in Leo, Fomalhaut (03PIS52) in the fish at the foot of Aquarius, are we seeing a fixed theme here? (I noticed a few Liliths on Aldebaran (09GEM47) in Taurus.) Then lastly I found quite a bit of Algorab ( 13LIB27) in the Crow and Sabik (17SAG58) in Ophiuchus. Positions for fixed stars year 2000.

Psychopaths

psychoAdolf Hitler’s chart has a tight psychotic triangle of Uranus trine Lilith square Eris. This Mean Lilith is on the screaming Warrior Queen Bellatrix square another Dark Goddess Warrior Eris. Double trouble there, electrified by Uranus. His True Lilith is on Algol (Not shown.) Deceptive but mesmerizing Sun/Neptune plus a Moon/Pluto blown out of proportion by Jupiter and a doesn’t know who he is Neptune Sun square Ceres on the MC, smother, mothering the German people. He has all the signs…

Ted Bundy was the perfect Scorpionic seductor. With his Sun on Acrab. He used his good looks and charm to seduce then kidnap, rape and kill atleast 30 young women. He would go back to the crime scene and have sex with the corpses for hours at a time. He decapitated some of the heads and kept them as momentos. In his chart the strongest aspects is the Pluto trine Mars (02’) representing the deadly sex but also the sexual charisma. Interesting is Saturn the planet of corpses with Pluto (sex) showing the necrophilia. They are both in the 12th and oppose Ceres the earth, where the bodies were presumably laying. Neptune connects them all in some weird merging ritual. His Lilith was on Lesath, very apt as the sexual predator and his Moon on Sabik in the snake charmer does the job of hypnotizing his victims. In this case Sabik literally does give “perverted morals and success in evil deeds“[1]

Marvin Lemons was another sexual psychopath and necrophiliac. He actually worked as a grave digger and had a history of child molestation. He was known for sleeping with his dead victims and even slept in a grave with a corpse. He boasted to the police of his multiple murders, showing them pictures he had drawn of their decapitated, chopped up and mutilated bodies. He had his Moon on Acrab by just 01’and if you look at his chart this potent Moon has both a Yod and Eris plugging into it. Mars on Algorab describes rather too vividly his scavenging nature and quincunxes the bare bones of Saturn , like Ted’s Saturn it is in the 12th. Look at his lonely unaspected Sun buried in the 4th. Sleeping in cemeteries..

British “Doctor Death” Harold Shipman is one of the worlds most prolific killers, with atleast 218 murders to his name. He was a respected member of the community. Shipman killed mainly elderly but healthy women with an injection of diamorphine. He probably would never had been found out had he not attempted to forge a will of on of his victims in his favour. He covered his tracks well, forging medical records by saying his patients had been in poor health. In his extremely red chart we get Mars conjunct Saturn on “evil” twin Pollux opposite Sun conjunct Venus. This is very descriptive of a good twin/bad twin character. Two separate sets of triangles also. The icey Moon/Uranus sextile a spellbinding Pluto/Neptune minor grand trine below the horizon while above the horizon we have Eris square the medical Ceres/Mercury conjunction feed by the poison coming from Neptune. Neptune connects both sides of his split personality. Lilith sextile Venus gives him his bedside manner.

Onto some women psychopaths now. Frances Newton has a similar chart setup to Harold Shipman. She was executed in 1987 fro the murder of her husband, 7 yr old son and baby daughter. She shot them with a pistol belonging to her lover, the motive was thought to be for their £50,000 life insurance. Frances claimed they had been shot by a drug dealer. Her chart has the Moon sandwiched between cool electric Uranus and hot obsessive Pluto. Mars, Uranus and the Moon are ALL on Zosma. This star is not really noted for being evil as such, but it can be either victim or saviour. She obviously thought she could play the victim well enough to get away with her crime. That stick of dynamite stellium is opposite Saturn conjunct Ceres in the 8th house of death. As if her Moon didn’t have enough, it also has Eris and Mercury quincunxing that it also. Note Lilith on its own squaring the tight Sun/Venus and sextile Neptune. The bad girl, deceptive Neptune and incredible sexual charm.

Lastly we have Karla Faye Tucker. During an afternoon getting high on drugs, Karla and her boyfriend decided to steal a motorcycle. Somehow they both ended up murdering the bikes owner and a girl he was with. Karla killed the girl with a pick axe through the heart, strangely later telling friends that she experienced multiple orgasms at each blow of the axe. Karla was sentenced to the death penalty and imprisoned, after which she conveniently found god and pleaded that her life be spared. The Born-again Christian said she was now a reformed character and blamed drugs for her past behavior. Incredibly the psychotics “poor me” act did attract some support from religious groups. But the courts didn’t fall for it and she was executed in 1998. Her chart has an interesting mystic rectangle. Neptune’s drugs and lies are the midpoint of a charming Venus and the conman’s tricky Mercury. Mercury is on powerful archangel star Antares in Scorpio and helped by Jupiter and trined by Eris. Lilith is on Aldebaran, another archangel star, but only brings supreme success if one acts with integrity. Her Venus is in the tricky Crow on one of the magical Behenian stars. Maybe she though the archangels would save her from Ceres on Lesath, the lethal injection that was to kill her.

Of course with all these charts it’s easy to see all the psychopathic traits with hindsight. With these aspects one can very often either be the victim or the victimizer. I do tend to attract a lot of Plutonic/Lilithian clients and indeed many people close to me have many of the aspects featured here. My view is that with one in 20 people being psychopathic it is very likely that we know quite a few personally. But in order to deal with these people one needs some heavy duty darkstars in ones weaponry. It’s no good fighting Pluto with a fluffy pink Moon/Venus marshmallow. Throwing love at them will not work. Those of you born with any of the above aspects or stars and make them conscious*, be thankful you have them. They are a blessing not a curse.

1. Fixed Stars & Their Constellations. Robson Pg 199.

Solutions!

Sienna Lea – Stealing The Moon

196 thoughts on “Angel, Demon or Psychopath?

  1. For many years, I’ve been grateful to God that He made me a cradle Christian… B-)

  2. interesting that you should post this with Moon conj Mercury quinx Neptune/Chiron & Pluto, Ceres squ Venus, Mars conj Aldebaran trine Saturn, Sun squ Saturn, Eris trine NN – totally fascinating article Marina! Would you apply this to anything other than a natal chart?

    1. Steven Forrester calls Eris “the next planet to watch.” I’m ready for him to write about it.

    2. Totally in agreement with him! My next blog HAS to be about Eris. She’s been bugging me for a while. I wasn’t going to, but I think I will include her in the Sun aspects also. After I finish Ceres.

  3. There is a trial in the US, that have been going on since June 1st. About Casey Anttony Trail. It is addictive to watch,But she also fits the description of psychopath Tot Mom Killer.

    1. Totally agree on the Casey Anthony thing. I’m here in NY and I’ve seen some of the trial. She appears to have a VERY easy time at lying and making up multiple stories to different people. I don’t know this for a fact but from what I’ve seen of her in the courtroom, she seems to have little sense of remorse and a strangely “blank” sort of look to her.

    2. Today is the closing auguments on Casey Anttony Trail. I did her and her daugther’s chart a day ago,and there are telling signs,like Casey’s Pluto in hidden,tranformative Socrpio opposes Caylee’s Mars in Taurus. Mars and Pluto are two Powerful planets,But Pluto eliminates and destorys,and is powerful than Mars. She also lies and is deceptive to people around her. Casey’s Moon/Neptune opposition,where she makes up stories that are not true. And Others in the chart,Telling signs that she Murdered her child Caylee.

    3. aside from lying, neptunian desolving of reality, neptune in capricorn is a contradiction but all the more powerful, when 1st/hs/cancer/moon/opp draws attention to self, (emotion,poor little girl so small, sweet, no not Caylee but Casey, lets not confuse the 2 we have a dead child here) and jupiter powerfully placed @ 2 drgrees pisces moves props in and out of possition. So here she is decieving men w/ her what? innocence!
      Progress Caylees chart, see the powerful leo sun is about to cross her AC, yikes Casey better move quick. Here is Casey living the ‘good’ life, all the sensitivity of her planets, (jupiter 2pisces) cry quilt, mean while the adored Caylee is living in a sphere of protected childhood, with simple, (commanding)innocence due her leo saturn mercury sun, (sun 4years behind the AC), a bright happy, overt, demanding and valued,snd/hs venus/virgo & libra/moon, jupiter/NN/Conq.)Caylee was worth her weight in gold! mean while her mother was sinking into depravity…the contrast!

      Remember this is cancer moonAC Casey, the mother smotherer a weak ides of March sun, looking at Caylee’s solar strength personified. There is deep festering hatred too as Casey’s possessive taurus/venus is square caylee’s saturn. the idea was ‘don’t let her see her 4th birthday!!!’

      Casey poor dumb emotional child? Her late weak pisces sun is taken over by the the strategizing mars/scorpio and pluto/scorpio/opp/venus taurus thinks deadly thoughts. mercury/libra/sextile/saturn/sag. thinks long range She knew exactly what she was doing!!! moved the body twice. and partied because she knew it was only a matter of time befor capture, guilt and imprisonment. all happened but the imprisonment in fact she was incarcerated 3/years roughly the same length of caysee’s life, rather fitting as the childs life desplaced, ruined and imprisoned hers, reality/thoughts intertwined

  4. I believe that Venus, Mercury and Neptune are at play only to make them better tricksters and seducers / charmers … If it were only for the brutal planets and stars to be at play they would be recognized by other people quite quickly. So looking back in hindsight at their charts it takes a particular combination of evil thoughts and sweet talks

  5. Marina –

    I was so interested in this I went to ASTRO.com and checked my chart. Turns out I have both Lilith and Pluto EXACTLY conjunct at 9 degrees Virgo in my first house. Ah jeez….Now I’m panicking….

    1. I think Lilith/Venus has more psycho potential. It came up the highest. I’ve seem Lilith Pluto mainly with gifted psychics. Talking to the dead? I wouldn’t panic. I think Lilith/Pluto is a demon slayer!

  6. Well, it’s been the topic of discussion in general about lack of empathy so much so that they are bringing babies in the young grades to develop it.
    So other than the extreme cases you mention it seems a opportunity to pin labels on suspicious others like parasites, ie the poor,unhealthy society raised worldly afflicted. World going down.
    Like dementia or schitzoid symptoms which are made to fit for lack of anything more broadly accepting. In any case concentrating on the negatives are a more negative virgo thing to do. There that’s not to sweet tlaking with evil thoughts is it.

  7. As you would know Marina this post was very interesting to me. On a personal note I want to thank You for bringing attention to the great prevalence (and spectrum) of the psychopathic personality in the human population. Until I encountered such an individual in my personal life I only thought of psychopaths as serial killers and mmovie characters. Sadly they are out there … my soul’s greatest growth came from dealing with the fallout from such evil. For the last weeks I was wondering if you would look at the chary of Casey Anthony who was mentioned in earlier comments, and then I realized her trial might not be ad newsworthy in other parts of the world. In any case, should you decide to look into the story and do her chart I’m sure you’d likely find more evidence to support your observations… and your readers across “the pond” would likely find it of high interest. Thanks as always for the illumination you & Jamie bring to our world!!

    1. No it’s true Id not heard of Casey Anthony, but im really interested. I wonder if I can find it on youtube.
      Yep, tell me about the soul growth…

  8. Great post Marina – there is some evidence that nurture plays a part in allowing or preventing psychopathic tendencies from becoming dangerous – some very eminent and worthy people have them, but channelled differently!
    I’m a bit worried about the use of the word ‘psychotic’ in this context – psychosis is a very different condition causing hallucination and delusional thinking and it affects many people at some point in their lives for many different reasons. Suffering from psychosis does not make you a psychopath, but because of this misunderstanding psychotic people can be treated with fear and prejudice when they are no danger to anyone.
    I love your description of pyschopathic traits – sound like any teenagers you know?

    1. Thanks for clearing the distinction between psychotic and psychopath. Yes its a problem when the terms are similar. The real problem is some psychopaths playing on mentally ill card, saying that they were not of sound mind when they did something terrible. This implies they can be cured and with enough help, love and understanding they will get better. But true psychopaths are a lost cause, they never get better.

      Maybe we are bringing up a generation of psychopaths with all these violent video games! Scary.

  9. alcoholics are sometime self medicating psychopaths, jeffery dahmer drank in highschool and later when he was living w/ his grandmother, going to church etc, trying to blot out memories of his 1st victim…like charts presented here his was strong, too much flashing animal drive. venus/taurus, jupiter/saturn in capricorn, aires moon…yikes

    Ted bundy was the product of incest, 12/hs/leo/pluto/saturn/conq is a devoring father,w/ a just out of reach square to venus/mercury is burning rage, from the well reported early rejection, lit by the NM sag/mars can’t see anything but his twisted, (opp uranius/gemini) desires. rather terrifing chart.

    like Dahmar Dr. Shipman murdered once, then was addicted to Demerol for more than a year…awh but if only they’d left well enough alone! uranius/gemini is cold unfeeling electric the Dr’s (was) conq his moon.

    the only person deserving a pang of sympathy is Karla, as her first taste of normal was prison. Her mom sold her to men at age 11, picking her and her sister up from foster care, and (trying to remember the documentary) she was devoted to her sister and suffered rejection from her but still babysit her children. the idea of her personal toughness, always on desplay, 11/hs/saturn capricorn opp 5th/hs cancer/moon …led her to murder 2 people, as the man she was with couldn’t. the 9/10/hs scorpio/sun/cong/mars/square 7th/hs/uranius/leo is agitated by threatened by weakness, strangness in others as to blot out her own failure. There is high intelligence, love of adventure, (sag/jup/mercury/conq/10/hs) and venus/nn/conq 8th…

    1. Oh I didn’t know the story behind Karla. Thank you. I think we need to see her mothers chart. Now THAT’S the psychopath if this is true. Awful, awful….

      Still though, can we really believe the story about her mother? Is this her account or are there other testimonies. The trouble with these people is we just can’t believe anything they say. It could all be part of the “poor me”.

  10. Karla was refered to as a child prostitute, and was babysitting her sisters kids when picked up for the murders. She did not see much wrong with murdering 2 people, in her own eyes she was tough and desirable, it was later she understood her life was over. Her mother died when Karla was 20, her dad befor. The age she went into prostitution varies, her mom kept her out of school and traveled around to motels…. apparently she excelled in prison, knitting, charming, a lot of people tried to save her but 2 murders, one can’t expect to recover from that….unless you’re a politician…

    1. I think Amanda Knox might fall into this category.

  11. Hiya I just want to say your writing is fascinating to read!
    I was curious about my ex husband he has serious Psychological problems and he is believed to be a Psychopath..he follows the text book behavior to a T. He was born 10/17/1974 at 9:50am in South Carolina in the USA.. and he has a ton of Scorpio in most of his planets and is on the Cusp as well..!
    Just curious about your thoughts.. he’s very scary for me and my children who have been away for years..but he never fully goes away. Thanks

    1. Interesting chart. The Sun/Mars on Arcturus. I see this in some real charmers who just get lucky time and time again. Venus square Saturn (01′!) Venus trine Lilith. Alderbaran/Antares on the nodes. Very powerful, but only if he acts with integrity.

    2. Oh yes he is a Charmer alright that’s how he got me years ago lol..but luckily not very educated and holds absolutely no integrity..do you see the Psychosis of a Psycopath or I’m I just speculating. I’m just wondering how truly dangerous he is. Thanks for your time its appreciated. Ruby

    3. Just to clarify something – Psychopaths are not mentally ill, it is a personality disorder, and in the true psychiatric sense it is only mentally ill people who have psychotic episodes, usually if they stop taking their medication but sometimes even if they stay on it. The medication can often be worse for them due to the side effects, so they stop taking them. People with schizophrenia are generally very gentle, sensitive souls despite the media and movie depictions of them. People with Bi Polar can become psychotic. But being psychotic doesn’t always present as violence. People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Sociopathic Personality Disorder and perhaps the worst, Psychopathic Personality Disorder do not have a mental illness. They seem to be just lacking in empathy and can be just plain evil. I’m sure there are degrees of this, and upbringing and environment must also play a part.

    4. Thanks Leone (see my post further up) confusing psychosis with psychopathy is like confusing a paedophile with a paediatrician – it happens…big long Greek word, sounds pretty much the same, let’s burn their house down. Maybe we should use simple words like ‘bonkers’ versus ‘evil’ lol. Of course psychosis can cause some people to do dreadful things, but most psychotics I know are too busy dealing with imaginary insects to go out and harm anyone.

    5. Astrologically there isnt anything too nasty to worry about in terms of the stars compared with the list I posted further below. If he has being diagnosed than I wouldnt argue with it. But if you hadnt told me anything about him I would not look at that chart and think psycho at all to be honest. Just that he’d be not very forthcoming with affection due to the Venus/Saturn square.

    6. Thanks for responses there are so well appreciated. He is a true Sociopath I do recognize that.. and due to his upbringing which was bad he is very sick and medication doesn’t work. But at least he won’t really hurt people to the degree of a Psychopath. That is comforting for us to know. Thanks again. Hope you get to feeling better soon.

  12. OMG, I have Pluto conjunct Mars in the 8th and Lillith in the 12th opp my Sun! I really hope the Libran Neptune trine Sun makes me a good person because psychopaths and narcissists scare the crap out of me and I would be destroyed to discover I could be one! People generally don’t seem to find me scary…I don’t think so anyway.. I was also wondering Marina or Jamie whether you found I have Venus square Neptune?

    1. No, no you are so NOT a psychopath. I just read half your feedback email just now, I keep meaning to really look at your chart again, (health things keep distracting me.) because your life…my god, you have really been through it haven’t you? and are so typically the Persephone who attracts these dark people.
      Beautiful pictures btw, you look like a filmstar!

    2. Hi Marina, sorry to hear you have health issues and please don’t worry about answering my dreadfully long email – thanks for the compliment, but as you know beauty is but a fleeting thing. I thought the pics might help in deciding which day and time I was born – I remember someone saying people with Cancer rising often have moon faces and such, and perhaps there are physical signs for the others. I think we got Sag right, though. One of the fathers of my children used to say I reminded him of a young filly! Gee thanks…

  13. Myra Hindley – a perfect example of a psychopath and claimed to be under the spell of her equally psychopath boyfriend Ian Brady. For anyone who is too young to remember or in a country where the story wasn’t publicised (no where at the time,) Myra Hindley was convicted of five child murders with her boyfriend Ian Brady. The murders were violent, pornographic and involved torture. The coupe recorded the children pleading for their lives while being tortured.

    I knew her one time lawyer years ago when she was in prison on the Isle of Wight who told me that if you didn’t know what she had done, you would just think she was an amiable pleasant intelligent person who you could easily pass a lunch hour with.

    On hearing the news of her dog’s death Hindley became furious, and accused the police of murdering Puppet, one of the few occasions detectives witnessed any emotional response from her. In a letter to her mother shortly afterwards Hindley wrote:
    I feel as though my heart’s been torn to pieces. I don’t think anything could hurt me more than this has. The only consolation is that some moron might have got hold of Puppet and hurt him.

    Hindley was later described by DCS Peter Topping as “a quiet, controlled, impassive witness who lied remorselessly”.

    Hindley was treated with immense violence as a child and encouraged by her violent father to be violent to outsiders or she would be beaten. She and Brady seem to have homed in on a common wound.

    1. Her partner Ian Brady has to be the perfect example of a psychopath starting with his illegitimate birth ( I know this is not a prerequisite but the psychopathology of the mother – at that time – would have been very affected by having an illegitimate child), he was then given to a foster family while his mother was peripheral in his life, he tortured animals viciously and grew into a delinquent in trouble with the law. He then formed a fascination with HItler and Nazi atrocities. then met HIndley who admitted she was practically hypnotised by him.

      I always thought the spirit of these two was somehow illustrated in the punk era. Brady designed Hindley’s look, the hair, the boots, etc which became further exaggerated during the punk years. The Uranus/PLuto vibe…

      I haven’t had time to look for Eris or other clues yet but we could have a field day with these two – I can on;y bear to study in very small chunks because the reality is so anathema to me – just makes me feel sick because of the children involved.
      I had to drive over Saddleworth Moor a few times due to some work in the greater Manchester area. Bleak and so tinged with the memory and public horror of this place. Brady took a picture of Myra with her puppy over the grave of one victim.

    2. The story of her dog is a perfect example of the extreme emotional reaction out of all proportion. I looked at her chart very early on in our blog but I didn’t consider Ceres, Eris, true Lilith or the fixed stars back then which actually tell the story far better. I didn’t know about her violent father explains what I found here: https://marinadarkstar.wpengine.com/myra-hindley-horoscope-lilit/

      She has a minor grand trine with Ceres conjunct Eris at 5º Aries trine her Moon/Pluto both of those sextile Uranus in the 12th. Venus and Lilith are conjunct on powerful red giant Betelgeuse. “Success that is not blocked”. Well success in stealing “babies” that is. I know someone else with that, rather too close for comfort..

      Oh interesting. Her True Lilith and Mercury are conjunct Castor, the supposedly good twin. Mercury is children. I also find it hard to look at Myra Hindley too much. Too upsetting.

  14. Wow. So off-base. This is what happens when lay people presume to understand psychology. They turn it into some warped pop culture idea that fits their idea of “equality” among the sexes. You are better off actually reading a diagnostic manual and examining the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. Your claim that the 85% statistic is wrong is plain wrong. Sleazy way to try to pull women into a category (with men) in which they don’t belong. and “far more insidious?” Really? Hitler was extremely insidious, so is fascism, torture, rape, pillaging, all conceived of and perpetrated by males. 99% of those making the psychotic decisions today on a global level are male. Take any photograph, whether of financiers, military leaders, NSA, CIA, etc., and who’s sitting at the table? Guys. You are participating in the age-old freudian idea that women bear the real blame for our woes. They don’t. Their fathers, spouses and sons do. Step up to reality and deal with it.

    1. all the more reason to examine, really! women never egg men on, or cover for them, all are perfect mothers like andrea yeats. Of course the sexes are meant to complement and possessions do attract….

      some people are missing the great I AM. the main reason for not committing crime is to not be a liar, murderer, thief, adulterer or cruel. A cruel comment may be meant with laughter but it is still wrong, to feel is to be wounded by ones own actions.
      it’s important to explain this to people, how action, (mars) effects self-hood, status.. why self-distruct. hurting others helps no one, even truth needs tact.
      strong charts for blood-thirsty savages, so they find strength to will demons away …or fail.
      if your mad at the world find something to love. Even an insect. human love is god on earth.

    2. “insidious = stealthy, subtle, surreptitious, cunning, crafty, treacherous, artful, sly, wily, shifty, underhanded, indirect; informal sneaky.” WIKI

      Look up the meaning of insidious. Nothing subtle about Hitler!
      I do come from a feminist perspective, so there is no way I want to come across as blaming women for all our woes. But you seem quite happy to blame all men for them. How can the sexes move forward? I have continually get annoyed with all the gods and gurus being male also. But that does not mean that men have the monopoly on spirituality does it? It’s just the way that society is fashioned since women still give birth to children.

      So are you saying that psychopathy is just a male trait then? I have known mothers who are incredibly cruel to their children. The belief that a woman is not capable of the same psychopathic behavior as a man is the mentality that puts children is great danger. Witness the case of Baby “P” in the UK. I think you are being sexist there. It works both ways.

      I just to be a raging feminist and jump up screaming at the slightest suggestion that women are in any way “Evil”. But I have been forced to admit as I have grown older that it’s not that one sided.

    3. Of course not. I am saying we have all been living inside of a psychopathological and patriarchal system set in motion thousands of years ago. Prior to the invasion of the lands of mesopotamia, anatolia, etc., by the bronze spear wielding easterners, these civilizations lived for tens of thousands of years without weapons.

      Having worked in the field of psychology for 30 years, I can tell you much of it is all about finding ways to ensure that mother’s are to blame for psychopathology. You claim in your opening that female manipulation is “far more insidious.” There is no such proof of that and it appears you are simply making a subjective opinion. This is then coupled with your statement that you believe the statistic of 85% to be too high. Again, that is a subjective belief on your part and is an attempt to deny facts. That would be a symptom of an inability to deal with reality – psychosis.

  15. You can’t argue with Brady and HIndley. These are real psychopaths as per old definitions. Both are classic textbook cases. One of each sex.

    I believe Hare’s PCL-R is now used to define psychopathy in the US and the term sociopath is relatively recent.
    The American Psychiatric Association states that psychopath and sociopath are misnomers, the WHO states psychopathy, antisocial behaviour, asocial personality and amoral personality are synonyms for dissocial personality disorder. The official definitions and names thereof are confused, generally.

    The rest of us just know when someone is barking mad.

    Without going into massive details over the criteria for establishing names for degrees of behaviour, which seem to reflect both cultural and subjective differences, lets just say that this article is an inquisition into the astrology of the mad, bad and dangerous to know.

    Personally I think there are degrees of sociopathy and psychopathy. Many political leaders are both but get away with it within context of history and culture and yes, they are mostly males – perhaps testosterone is the key. And somewhere, murder and discovery of murder is the ultimate handle for condemnation.

    Psychopathy and sociopathy – whatever you want to call it in whatever degree seem to be increasingly common states. One of the criteria is lack of remorse or guilt. Women are by no means immune to this. Many of us seem to have no problem leaving our babies with total strangers in pursuit of social recognition (career) or money (career) and not feeling remorse or guilt.A generation of kids left with minders and in creches then plonked in front of the TV can’t be good. Is this sociopathic since a female may have to lie to herself that she is doing the right thing? These are all difficult tags to hang in very varying degrees. You could argue that a female who recklessly gets herself pregnant without considering the future of herself or her child is a sociopath. In which case there are plenty of socially maladjusted ladies out there.

    If the rate of incarcerated criminals who fit ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) is about 80/85%, according to Hare, about 20% of these criminals would qualify for a diagnosis of what Hare’s scale considers to be a psychopath. This twenty percent, according to Hare, accounts for 50 percent of all the most serious crimes committed, including half of all serial and repeat rapists. So in this article, Marina is using a small sample of criminal psychopaths both male and female but trying to find common astrological links.
    And of course most people who grow up in seriously disadvantaged homes do not become psychopathic criminals.
    So there has to be a little difference in there somewhere.

    There may well be then, an astrological significator which does equal out between the sexes.I htink she has cited Eris (who causes havoc at the least). Its not a sleazy way to discredit women at all. Its a curious way to try and find a pattern in a horoscope.

    I don’t recall Freud saying women were to be blamed for all our woes. I think that was a religious thing back in history and its certainly not the case now.
    There are posts regards the differences between labels. These labels will continue to change. The results of the labels will not. The astrological factors involved are very unlikely to change either.

    1. Our sheriff said, ( in response about anti-social behavior and prison inmates) “No! the problem is not anti-social behavior but too social!” kind of made me feel better as my MO is retreat. where is the balance of imagination, paranoia, the possibilities for public humuliation are endless. some criminals look into a jeering crowd with astonishment, plans in thought stage looked good, the outcome positive and it was supposed to be private(craigs list), go off with out a hitch… why do they hate me, make it their business? They find out too late privacy, status, community love has value, is good.

    2. “too social” – that is a piece of brilliance. A compulsion to influence other people’s lives with no censoring.

    3. Freud coined the term ‘schizophrenogenic mothers’ and blamed us for our children’s mental illnesses. Now this has been debunked, with genetics and marijuana + other drugs now believed to be playing a large part in this epidemic.

    4. Marijuana and other drugs may be it! I would include alcohol also. Very Algol. Jamie found this yesterday :
      “The amygdala appears to play a role in binge drinking, being damaged by repeated episodes of intoxication and withdrawal. Alcoholism is associated with dampened activation in brain networks responsible for emotional processing, including the amygdala.
      “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala#Alcoholism_and_binge_drinking

      I think that’s why we are getting more and more of these personality disorders and possibly all the ADHD in kids. What role does recreational drug taking and boozing have on the quality of sperm and eggs in the parents?

    5. This is close to home as both my children suffer from psychosis, i.e hallucinations, under stress.In retrospect the signs were there in childhood, but I put it down to a gift of 2nd sight that seems to run in their father’s family. It’s a fine line. They are fed up with constant assumption by friends/health workers that they’ve been banging weed or whatever – neither of them has used drugs, though my daughter was average teen drinker before bipolar diagnosis. Their father, though, is a total 60’s casualty (can you hear my virgo Pluto talking there?!)done way too much acid back in the day, sometimes delusional, sometimes bang on psychic. And I might have had the odd experimental bit of this and that, but not habitually. The question of whether it has altered our genetic material is interesting, and painful to contemplate. What’s cause and what’s effect?

    6. Outrage,shock over US,and mybe the world,over not gulity verdic of US mom,Casey Antthony accused of killing daugther Caylee Antthony,but astrologically it proves that she killed her daugther and to cover up her tracks.

    7. There is no such thing as absolute astrological proof someone is guilty of anything.
      None of the evidence was sufficient to support the conviction. This is how courts work. Anthony was tried in a court. Sometimes murderers walk free.

    8. cancer moon is distructive, direct-wires to ‘loved ones’ and will destroy, or threaten to, what you care about the most. If squared the native will destroy their own work, opp; yours or charished posessions….caylee w/ all her 2nd/hs was the grandparents most charished posession. A lack of love, drives them crazy, a frenzy….very dangerious.

    9. Interesting,but caylee was missing on june 16th 2008,they say that she was murdered on that day. Casey’s chart shows transitng Uranus squaring her natal Uranus/Mars in sagatarius,also activsting as well Sun/Mercury in pisces a great need for freedom,that shows her partying for 31 days. But what happaned in those 31 days,and Casey’s no telling of her daugther Caylee?

    10. No he didn’t, it was Theodore Lidz who wrote in his books Schizophrenia and the Family and The Origin and Treatment of Scizophrenic Disorders about schizophregenic parents.

      “In such families the parents were rarely in overt disagreement, and the family settings were reasonably calm. But, as we studied these seemingly harmonious families, it became apparent that they provided a profoundly distorted and distorting milieu because one spouse passively acceded to the strange and even bizarre concepts of the more dominant spouse concerning child rearing and how a family should live together. We termed the seemingly harmonious ones as “skewed”.

      You can read some excellent accounts of schizophregenic parents in People of The Lie by M. Scott.
      Peck. I don’t know who has debunked the idea because if you study the cases you’ll find they abound still and the results are disturbing.

      I did the charts of such a family a few years ago. The father eventually threw himself under a train.

    11. Sorry – above that should read M Scott Peck.
      I’ll add this – Lidz criticised a culture of blame against schizophrenogenic mothers, however, writing:
      I also find it very distressing that because the parents’ attitudes and interactions are important determinants of schizophrenic disorders, some therapists and family caseworkers treat parents as villains who have ruined the lives of their patients.
      As the mainstream psychiatric field embraced biological psychiatric techniques, the concept of the “schizophrenogenic mother” lost credibility in the profession. There are still some professionals, however, who believe that traumatogenic modes of parenting cause psychosis.

      Note the word psychosis – its not psychopathy apparently although I’d bet there’s a thin line between the two in extreme cases.

    12. Sorry, but anyone who takes M Scott Peck seriously has lost credibility in my opinion. Check out: https://www.vakkur.com/psy/schizoph_faq.htm. Freud did coin the term.
      My son had schiozophrenia and died of alcoholism in 2009 – it was caused by his genes, smoking marijuana, eating too many magic mushrooms and taking datura in a hippy commune at Nimbin in NSW. If I had anything to do with it, then why are my other three sons okay? A parent can’t possibly know what influences played a part at school,in sport, or just in the community, but I do feel offended that anyone in this century would still blame mothers for everything that goes wrong in a family. What about his absent father who couldn’t msarry me because his uncle was a Catholic bishop?

    13. I checked out your man – /www.vakkur.com/ – he’s a certified medical doctor with a questionaire. I’m sure he’s excellent but cultural styles in psychiatry have changed since Lidz, with the use of biological psychiatric method which may go too far the other way in just saying someone has a chemical imbalance.

      Lidz used his terminology with reference to other states of mental disorder – psychosis. His work on shizophregenic parents is still valid. You may not be one but there are plenty who are and Scott Peck illustrated some cases.

      I don’t appreciate your derogatory personal remark to me because I think his work has validity. But never mind.

      His book focuses on people who are insidious in their operation and who pass as good pillars of society. This is why it is valid. Of course most people who write with “difference” have to stand up to debunking/ridicule etc and cultural values change with time. His catholicism worked for and against him. His bahviour likewise.

      You are talking sadly about your son who was a schizophrenic.
      Schizophrenia and psychopathy are not the same at all. Lots of posts here are making it clear that psychopathy is not in the same category as other mental illness. In fact it is not, per se mental illness.

      I can understand your defence of your position as a mother who may have had the finger of blame pointed at her – but its not by me! And absent fathers have much to answer for – if not more.

      M Scott Peck’s book People of the Lie deserves a read. He was a catholic and he goes into some very off key avenues through his catholicism which a mainstream psychiatrist would not consider at all. Personally I think he touched on something in the period of time he wrote the book because in the 60s so many people were playing with psychoactive drugs and now it is endemic.

      In the final chapter of the book, he explores demonic possession, so disturbed was he by some of the behaviour he witnessed. He did not blame parents for this. This is a reality which ever way you regard it.

      With the use of psychoactive drugs, channels are opened for lesser entities which is why they are so dangerous. But that is a whole other thread I’m sure.

      It is popular to ascribe causal reasons for much of life’s disasters and as you say, it may be other stuff – school, community etc
      Read Charles Krebs “A Different Way of Thinking” as to how trauma affects people. Its remarkable. And trauma is relative.

      Your son’s condition was likely a product of his culture and I would hazard some susceptibility in his birthchart. Which is why his brothers are different.
      The psychopathology of a person does not commence with the day they are born. Not to me, as an astrologer. Dr Vakkur may think otherwise and that is what he is certified to do and be paid for.

      If you read Lidz you wold understand that what he is saying rgds shizophregenic parents refers to a bizarre collusion between the parents – maybe his terminology is misleading.
      I’ll post again what you may have missed –
      Lidz criticised a culture of blame against schizophrenogenic mothers, however, writing:

      I also find it very distressing that because the parents’ attitudes and interactions are important determinants of schizophrenic disorders, some therapists and family caseworkers treat parents as villains who have ruined the lives of their patients.

      I’m really sorr to hear about your son. Your anger at this sad loss speaks for itself.

    14. apropos your other three sons – they all have different birth times. Three separate individuals with soul paths.

    15. I checked out Vakkur’s statement on schizophrenia btw – he refers to it as a thought disorder… and misquotes Freud for rgds shizophrenogenic parents. If only it were that simple. Alas this is the state of modern “psychiatry.”
      Psychiatry is the 3D science version of psychology, the male form of study and treatment of a multifaceted and formless sea, the mind. Which in older disciplines was feminine – Psyche. Its a great shame that real study of mental illness has fallen into this masculine dominant trap.

      Like most modern scientists he uses the genetically inherited crutch for schizophrenia. Are you satisfied with that?

      He himself states that schizophrenia is an issue of thought disorder then says it is not a split mind… although we assume thoughts and the mind are connected?

      personally I’m stunned by the term thought disorder – it sounds like something from Brave New World. Psychiatry is synonymous with thought police in Vakkurs school.
      Jung spent years trying to show that the soul was at the root of a lot of mental dis-ease. But since so many people do not believe in the soul it is hard for them to take this approach. His very early work on hospitalized mental patients )sorry, an inadequate phrase) and mandalas is amazing – as is all his early work in mental institutions.
      You might want to read Modern Man in Search of a Soul by Jung. It might put your late son’s dilemma in a different perspective, one which has more depth and a more embracing understanding of his life and death.

  16. i’ve posted this insight once before- i have about 35 horoscopes on file, of these only 5 have venus opposite or square neptune, in geo OR heliocentric natal chart– i have found these people are charming and duplicitous to the point of sociopathy. of the 5, 3 have lied to me and stolen from me throughout the period i knew them (tho i didn’t suspect it until it was so obvious i couldn’t believe i didn’t figure it out earlier), and 2 haven’t stolen from me but i know they ‘nick’ things yet the stories of how they got whatever change every time they open their mouth… and they are always trying to scam people for something. re addiction-of the 5, the only woman is addicted to valium, 1 is a downer freak, 1 is a meth-head, 1 is a junkie, and 1 is a pothead. they all hide and lie about their addiction except the pothead ;p they are amusing socially, but one really can’t believe a word they say and be careful they don’t steal something. brings you eventually to a situation of looking at a friendship and wondering if you were ever really friends. i check natals now whenever someone new comes into my circle. i’ve had enough of that kind of crap in my life. forewarned is forearmed. i have neptune midheaven 29 lib (ss pluto), it’s read as a tendency to attract strange characters, but i think everybody is susceptible to these people.

    1. They come very well packaged. I have found Uranus conjunct/opposition Sun and or Moon to be very revealing – the sense of outright ego which is centre to the universe and everyone else a bit player. In my Uranus “collection” I find both male and female equally deranged.

    2. Lol…The “Uranus Collection”. I think I only have one of those. But I’m thinking I’m catching the derangedness myself. Does Uranus squ AC count or are we just talking Sun?

      My Mars/Neptune collection is quite large now. I need a bigger display cabinet.

    3. I think conj the asc is very apt becuase Uranus is dictating the path.
      Square he asc? meh… I think this means your path gets skewed from life’s pinballs…
      One of my collection is a Leo with Uranus conj Leo conj Asc. She has Moon in exact opp to all this. Procyon is her heliacal rising… she hounds the life out of people Literally!
      Her mother died when she was 7. Her natal Chiron in the 7th just off the desc demands the rest of the world but mostly her spouse fixes her wound.
      Her spouse is driven to drink. After two days in my house with her – so was I.
      With Mars on the MC she is aggressive in her hounding of others to fix her.
      She is a self harmer, can reduce an entire party to gloom, such is the heavy vibe coming off her – I could write a book… I’m not going into the details its too fascinating! BUT – here’s the thing!
      She’s a Microsoft Millionaire – she made a killing as she worked for them in their infancy and got paid in shares! (Capella on Saturn – shrewd, love of luxury and so on..)
      The Uranus aspects make her totally unbalanced. She has been on medication for the ten years I have known her… is anorexic, bullimic, only sports Luis Vuitton, Chanel, Armani etc but spends much of her time in a depressed state in a dark room. Although she lives in Barbados…
      Now one of the others… a male with Uranus in Libra, a Libra stellium and the asc in Libra… the cross dresser who had to be removed by the police… took 8 to restrain him… was wanted by police in Scotland for 6 assaults on police officers… an alcoholic, liar extraordinaire…
      When I met him, his first words were “I think I just ran out of charisma…” That’s got to be a psycho somethingor the other!!!

      Your Mars Neptune collection will need waterproof reinforcements… a battle ship?

    4. Lol. I think I’m getting the pinballs right now! From Mr Sun Uranus *Sigh*…. Lucky our NNode/Vertex conjunction pulls us back onto our true path everytime we get derailed by our personal crazinesses.

    5. Forewarned is forearmed yes! I stuck to (admittedly) a very simplistic measurement of what makes someone a psychopath because I got sick of seeing too many nice people sticking up for too many rotters by saying that they ve their lives destroyed by them including my mother and a good few mates also. Although it might seem extreme to brand them as psychopaths, but sometimes that’s the only way to realize what you are dealing with,and it is on the same spectrum.

      I find it amazing that these people with no empathy, are experts at pulling at the empathy strings in others. My purpose is also to empower those who have these darker aspects in their charts and get them to turn the blades outwards and not inwards. I’m not saying they have to go out slaying everyone who looks a bit shady. Its just about making your spikey aspects and “darkstars” work for you and not against you.

      Good for you that you have figured out the Neptune attractor. I know someone with it square her AC/DC and she similar problems, an ex who she lived with was a heroin addict and she had no idea!

    6. agree about empathy strings- wonder if it’s a form of vampirism? kind of fits with the way they lie/scam/con, too, always picking up on exactly what the other person wants to hear? be who the other person believes they are? an empathy vacuum in action? anyway, it definitely sucks! LOL! i haven’t done a comparison of planets’ positions, but i did notice it makes a difference in how it manifests. the absolute worst of them had geo venus ac and neptune dc, helio showed a 4 planet square (sorry no chart-deleted the guy! LOL!)– and like your friend, his gf (late 60’s lopsided natal) had no idea. he and the downer freak (helio ven-nep opp) are both aquarius sun.
      re empowering those with these dark aspects- i mentioned geo and helio natals. in my experience, the helio ven-nep person will never change and never show remorse (at least not within the 25 years i can document! 😀 who knows on their deathbed?); the geo ones, though, have a chance– with tough love– UNLESS the trait is reinforced in the helio! such as nep sq mer- they WILL be creative with the truth! these people need therapy. one of my gf’s 4 yr old son has ven-nep opposition leo11th/aqu5th and mars MH opp pluto both sq sun virgo ac. he’s been trouble since he started stringing words together. she’s perceptive enough she’s recognized his duplicity, how not to have that reinforced… ? what do you do when you realize your kid’s an asshole? the only advice i can offer her is to re-locate, change where it manifests- and the only place i find congenial for the two of them is adelaide! it may come to that!
      it’s interesting, isn’t it? criminal minds needs to get an astrologer into the show– or for garcia to download a criminal traits aspects astro-filter application!

    7. Oh, my, the thought of being seen as a liar and cheat/drug addict makes me feel sick – how close an orb do the planets have to be? I have Venus at 1 degree or so Cancer square Neptune at 5 degrees Libra, but I know I’m not a liar or a cheat and I don’t even drink, don’t smoke or take any drugs apart from my blood pressure pills, thryroid and the occasional paracetamol for a headache. Perhaps I channelled it into my journalism/creative writing! And panic attacks..

  17. Oh dear, my daughter has neptune conj uranus opposite mars, and eris conj mercury making a t-square. She’s a sweetheart but ever since she could speak has been what I call a smoking gun liar and well able to store information long term for blackmailing. She’s not a psychopath(I don’t think!) but she is bipolar.

  18. I find your work really fascinating. Much more in-depth than anything I’ve read until now. I never knew your chart could read in psycopathy, but duh! It makes so much sense. I believe I was married to one, but he seems able to fool even the courts psychologists with his wit and charm. To find out your true chart, do you need exact time of birth? My ex-husband never gave me that info and oddly, I never saw a copy of his birth certificate. But his DOB is 1/4/77 in Boston, Massachusetts USA. We have a daughter together so I worry about her being around him.

  19. I hada thought…. it happens..

    Lots of people – in fact most, who have stellar/planetary juxtapositions as mentioned in the article don’t manifest as real psychopaths.
    irritating yes… but full on nutters…???
    So what’s the catch which makes on person a pain in the butt and another Ian Brady?
    Is it an external agen? Psychic invasion? Agreement of the Universe? Morphogenic field?
    Eris?
    WHat’s the absolute nail?

    1. it could be something about the condition of the ego, afflicted/inflated/self-sabotaged etc – so, perhaps we should be looking to the condition of the Sun in people’s charts, as well as its depositor, whether its unaspected…..
      …..this would also tie into (along with the Moon) family history, hereditory patterns, isolation, lack of recognition, abuse in early life etc…
      the planets will tell us something about both of these, but, they remain potentials, are not inevitables, so how a person develops them, whether they continue to be ‘afflicted’ etc or are able to learn and transform the potential may well be greatly influencial in how the psychism develops to such an extreme extent that it becomes pathological

    2. Ah ha! This makes sense. Something running along an ancestral spiral which culminates. And then fulminates. Maybe the signs are there in the very early years but too much goes unchecked because children can be just a bit weird and we think they’ll grow out of it.
      So re the condition of the Sun in childhood – Brady divides the lifespan into four sections. Different stars having differing effects in each section.
      Early childhood trauma can be a relatively small thing but perhaps the lens of certain stars at that time can distort it out of proportion and create a mutation to the seed?
      Of course we make the assumption that the creator wanted us all to be just hunky dory…

    3. …..and how much we want to include planetary cycles, how these intermesh, how they and the patterns arising are integrated by the individual, as well as how much they push the individual, their history of transits, cultural and sociological setting, absence/predominance of parents, influence of siblings,unresolved issues arising in formative years etc etc….
      …how much can we overlook that each chart belongs to an individual with an individual history/future? And do pre-natal eclipses play a role?

    4. Good question. What IS the nail? Is it the more of these aspects you have the more likely you are to be a psychopath? Or does it all boil down to the consciousness of the individual how they use the aspects.

      Let’s try adding up the scores known psychos next to my nearest and dearest.

      Ted Bundy: Sun trine Eris, Ceres opp Saturn,Ceres trine Neptune, Venus quincunx Uranus, Moon conjunct Lilith, Moon conjunct Mars, Moon on Sabik, Sun on Acrab, Lilith on Lesath, South Node on Antares. (10)

      Sarah Aldrete: Sun quincunx Eris, Moon square Lilith, Mars on Pollux, Lilith at apex Yod, Lilith quincunx Mars/Venus, Jupiter Algol, Venus quincunx Saturn, Lilith on Lesath, Sun conjunct Pluto/Uranus, Lilith Conjunct Ceres, (13)

      Adolf Hitler: Sun square Ceres, Moon quincunx Pluto, Sun semi-sextile Pluto, Saturn square Venus/Mars, Lilith square Eris, Lilith trine Uranus, Lilith on Algol (8)

      Marvin Lemons: Sun semi-sextile Pluto, Moon on Acrab, Moon trine Eris, Moon quincunx Uranus, Mars on Algorab, South Node on Pollux. Lilith Opposite Saturn. (7)

      Harold Shipman: Sun opp Saturn, Venus Opp Saturn, Moon sextile Pluto, Lilith sextile Venus, Mercury square Eris, Lilith opposite AC.Mars on Pollux, Saturn on Pollux. (8)

      Karla Fay- Tucker: Eris sextile Lilith, Venus trine Lilith, Mercury trine Eris, Mercury on Antares, Venus in the Crow, Jupiter on Antares, Ceres on Lesath, Lilith on Aldebaran. (8)

      Jamie Partridge: Moon square Lilith, Sun conjunct Uranus/Pluto, Moon quincunx Eris, Venus Opp Saturn, Lilith sextile Eris. Moon on Zosma. Lilith on Aldabaran (8)

      Me: Moon sextile Eris, Lilith conjunct Mars, South Node on Acrab, DC on Sabik. (4)

      My daughter: Moon conjunct Uranus, Venus quincunx Lilith, Lilith on Algol, Sun on Algorab, Jupiter on Zosma, (5)

      My Mum: Sun square Pluto, Moon on Antares, Mars on Algol, South Node on Algol, (4)

      Uh ho…. Most people seem to have 4 of these. But maybe if we get to 7 or more then we are talking either victim or psycho slayer! Not very scientific I know, but you get the idea.

    5. This made me laugh… I was wincing as I went down the list and then the name Jamie Partridge came up…!

      Yup. A points system… the Hare system does the same – there are three sets of questions and each one has I think a triple score attached. So although you might answer yes to to all of them, there is then the matter of degree…

      There is the question of style too – I see Bundy has trines with Eris and Neptune. If you look at Brady’s chart its full of trines – Bundy was a sweet talker and Brady must have been very persuasive. see what Hindley wrote in a letter to her friend –

      Within months he [Brady] had convinced me that there was no God at all: he could have told me that the earth was flat, the moon was made of green cheese and the sun rose in the west, I would have believed him, such was his power of persuasion.

      I believe this power of persuasion is also crucial, having fallen prey to it myself, once with almost lethal result.
      I think IQ may also be relevant since Hindley’s was reported to be 107. Only just above ESN so maybe highly impressionable too.

      I had dinner once with Carl Stotter, the only survivor of Denis Nielson… I wish I had asked more questions but around a dinner table..?? I also had dinner with Klaus von Bulow definitely not a psychopath, maybe a murderer. Maybe all the dark stuff in my own chart takes me this far but no further. First degree murder but six degrees of separation!

  20. as you say Marina “Is it the more of these aspects you have the more likely you are to be a psychopath? Or does it all boil down to the consciousness of the individual how they use the aspects.” – I’d say both/and…

    1. You mentioned prenatal eclipses too – Tad Mann’s system uses the point of conception. How he worked this out I don’t know as there is no rule which says a pregnancy is 40 weeks, This is an average and the moment of conception must be very hard to calculate not least because conception doesn’t always take place in the statistical time of the cycle. However it has to be a real pivot in time for each one of us – we commence our “reality” in this illusion. Then the soul takes residence at another time.
      The soul’s mission + chart for conception + birthchart + morphogenic field + plus transits + plus possibility of psychic invasion…

  21. The Uranus connection – Scottish serial killer and psychopath Peter Manuel has a stellium on Pisces, Uranus is conj Sun and makes a trine with Moon and saturn opp Mars. As far as I can see, Antares is on Saturn and Aldebaran on Mars. Lilith is opp Eris and Eris is conj Uranus.

    herewith a description of him acting (pisces stellium) mad (uranus conj Sun)
    PETER Manuel tried to escape the noose by pretending he was a madman –
    He repeatedly said “chips” as he was watched over by a team of prison officers.
    He twitched, frothed at the mouth and mumbled incoherently and his normally upright walk was replaced by a shuffling gate as the only way to avoid execution.

    The transformation of Manuel started towards the end of June 1958 as his appeal was thrown out….
    He embarked on a pathetically theatrical attempt to convince the experts he was a basket case. Prison staff looking after him were astonished by the changes in him as the days slowly slipped away.
    Normally intelligent, communicative, sharp-witted and precise, Manuel became a shambling wreck.
    Even the way he smoked his cigarettes looked odd and he refused to eat much, sat with his legs crossed and even wet his bed.

    But it was the woman who knew him best – his mum – who really rumbled him.
    During one of her last visits to Barlinnie, Bridget – a woman Manuel worshipped (Ceres Venus trine) – battered him.
    She was so angry with his madness act that she erupted in rage, ran across the room and, watched by the chaplain Father Smith, smacked him across the face before pulling at his hair.
    Bridget screamed: “You can’t fool me!” The priest later wrote up details of the incident but Manuel was not put off by his mother and the mad act continued.
    On several occasions he was examined by psychologists and psychiatrists and found to be sane…

    His sister Teresa, a certified mental nurse had strong views on her brother and the MacNiven report states: “She thought the accused was a psychopath.
    When I asked her why, she said he was indifferent to other people’s opinions.” But the doctor wrote: “My own opinion is that the accused does come within the category of a psychopath. My opinion is that the accused is sane and fit to plead.”

    His “madness” got worse when senior figures were around.
    Experts decided his behaviour was a “hysterical reaction” to his death sentence. Very Sun conj Uranus in Pisces – an absolute sense of ego on one hand and no sense of self at the same time.
    I think he claimed blackouts too and was tested for a type of epilepsy to see if he could have committed murder while having some sort of extreme “fit” i.e loss of consciousness.
    He was convicted of 9 murders but may have been responsible for 18. He started his career in crime as a child with theft, escalating into dreadful acts I don’t want to describe.

    Deneb Algedi is heliacal rising – disgrace and ruin. if its rising is it also rising with natal Uranus which is conj sun? With the Uranus – Many sorrows, engaged in reform, unbalanced mind, may seek someone’s life as a mission, unfavorable for marriage, strange and peculiar or violent death. [Robson*, p.160.]

    I am reminded of M Scott Peck’s book People of the Lie which is mainly about variants on psychpathy and the last section on demonic posession. This might be a further key to psychopathy.

    1. Another Eris in aspect to the Moon, and then Moon to Lilith all at 0 degs, well there’s a good chance of it even if we don’t know the time. There’s something about Eris for sure. “People of the Lie”, theres another on my list to read.

  22. my daughter’s father has been the darkest and scariest individual I have ever know. At first, he was very charming and persuasive. He is a musician and a good talker. When we got together, he could never tell anyone the truth or how he was “really feeling” – he lived his life with a mask on. He constantly worried what others thought. He became very verbally abusive and eventually physically abusive. I left when I was 9 months pregnant. Still, he is a very scary person and I have always lived in fear that one day he will act out when he has no more options. He has never worked a traditional job, had a cell phone, a car, a place to live for very long. He is the typical struggling artist, but he blames me for all his misfortune. From this article it seems he has a lot of the markers in his chart. Black lilith, sun/pluto, eris opp sun, uranus energy, algerab. So much AIR! he REALLY not that intelligent. wth? Do you think there is some way to see the psychopath in his chart? or to watch out for future events when he has transits, etc. I had both our charts looked at once and was told we have karmic connections and with so much pluto and scorpio energy in both of our charts, we are bound together until we “work out” whatever issues we have together. I don’t want to work out any issues with him! I am scared of him! I wish he would just go away! + I worry for my daughter. He seems to really HATE women.

    1. I would second what Uberqueen says below Jessica! This is a really scary and difficult chart. I had to draw it up Dark Goddess style. Look how similar it is to Karla Fay Tucker! Eris, Lilith, Venus involved in a “Mystic” rectangle, well in his case less of the mystic, and more of the mesmerizing. Lilith conjunct Uranus on Algorab the fiendish star of the crow. Minor grand trine involving the Sun/Pluto sextile Jupiter/Neptune on Acrab in the Scorpion. Yes shivers. The only karmic thing you need to sort out is how to get as far from this man as possible. I don’t need to add up his scores to see this chart is bad news indeed.

    2. Opps forgot to put Chiron in there next to Eris. Makes it all the more poignant in that rectangle.

  23. Jessica – this sends chills down me.
    I have posted above somewhere about a very dangerous man I met once – well this one has the same birthday as he does. The one I know was born in Scotland but this is indeed incredible.
    Do not be tempted to hang out for some resolution just because someone told you you had a karmic connection. This is conjecture, ultimately. YOU may well have a karmic connection – as I must have done with the lunatic I knew. I also know I was close to being murdered and this was because of how the idiotic bail system works in the UK. It ultimately came down to me to “decide” whether or not he went to jail on remand until trial or I gave him a bail address. I took bad advice and didn’t want to be the “hang man” so I put him up for a while under bail conditions. What ensued was terrifying. I am lucky to be writing this.

    Ending a karmic cycle can be this – you get clean away and make rituals – acknowledge wha may have passed before and send forgiveness for everything which may have been done and forgive yourself. Meditate, pray for him of you are that way inclined and absolve yourself from further karmic dance.

    I am also shocked at the nice trines in his chart – look above at the chart of psychopath Ian Brady – (one of the most notorious and sadistic killers in our UK history) who also had a stellium (in Capricorn) and the chart of Peter Manuel (stellium in Pisces).
    I now think trines in the natal chart can be significant of lying and an ego which is so well protected, so fond of itself that it has no self regulation. I see the trines in harmonic charts I have studied in particular aspects of a person’s expression and it makes absolute sense.

    Your ex needs help but until he admits it and gets it, stay away. He’s angry with the world – a lot of “artists” think the world owes them because their mission is tinged with the divine… this is the downside of creativity. In the Jungian sense his anima is very immature and he is gong to blame his lack on you – all that Libra – the partner is the cause of the imbalance…

    Look at Eris and Chiron – opp Lilith in his chart – the handle on the bucket or the pivot – yes he DOES hate women. The weirdo I knew was a cross dresser although he too hated women and was a charismatic liar. He once came back to my house with a black eye covered in blood and said he had got involved in a fight because he saw a lovely young girl beain beaten up by her boyfriend and had stepped in…. sure…
    Inn case you can’t find my post, it took 8 police to restrain him after he was physically removed from my home. i beleiev I have a guardian angel.
    Good luck Jessica, stand your ground.

  24. wow! serious chills. thank you so much for the feedback. we definitely have a strong connection as we had a child together 11 years ago, but our relationship was so fast intense and wrong. He is like a ….parasite. I have resigned to completely let him go. Not engaging him as much as possible, I’ve meditated, prayed, released him, bathed him in light, gone to therapy, sought answers everywhere. I had determined a long time ago he has a chemical imbalance and/or a definite social disorder. sociopath/psychopath. he seems to have no feelings, but can whip them out at the drop of a hat. he has threatened my life and tried to take my daughter from me. He uses everyone that comes into his life, moving from one young unsuspecting woman to the next for support. almost every one of those women has contacted me to tell me their traumatic story of their experience with him. he’s just a plain scary individual. Definitely staying as far away from him as possible. I worry moreso about his influence on my daughter. He has already put somewhat of a “spell” on her. So much guilt! and she has strong and crazy opinions about women already; its hard to know how to help her besides being a good example for her.

    1. Yes being a good example to her and how you handle your ex is very important, because from that she will see that how he had been treating you in the past was very, very wrong.
      Its always going to be a worry how the effect of these people have on their children. I’m wrestling with that one myself, children have a right to see their absent parent, but what if that parent is having a negative effect?

  25. his name isnt David is it? lol.. sorry, i’m not being glib, i have had a very similar experience to you, only i’m a bit further down the line. my daughter is nearly 18 now. she was also as you put it under his ‘spell’ for many years as he came in and out of her life, messing her about and letting her down. he picked her up and put her down as it suited him. i quickly learned for self preservation that if i kicked up a fuss and said he couldnt see her that it would make matters worse, for her sake and the sake of her brothers i had to ‘allow’ him access in the hope that eventually she would see what kind of person he is. hes never supported her financially, and the last straw was when she had asked him to chip in towards her prom outfit. he got very nasty with her and threatened her, not in a parental way, in the way he would threaten another man (not that he would, most likely it would be a woman) and she wont have anymore to do with him. shes very strong and bright and has a great future ahead of her, which is despite his influence, no because of it. i’m so proud of her. oh and the funny thing is he’d started to talk about her moving out of ‘the mothers’ so that he could move in with her and start to leach of her too!! because i’ve ALWAYS been totally honest with her about him, she sees what he is now and stays well away :o)

    stay strong, be her friend and let her shout at you too! most importantly i think is to be utterly honest with her, she cant make any decision without all of the facts.

    1. Venus conjunct Mars… ouch! Me again! 😉

    2. Thanks AET – as you say ” we must be careful in believing in a predestination just based upon something that seems to be there.”

  26. Hey there! Sorry I was late to this, I’ve been out in the woods, isolated with only an occasional high speed wireless internet connection, about 3 kilometers up the road, down by the lake.. (its a nice view but many mosquitoes)

    I have taken up the topic for a rather long time, seeing have an interest in understanding what exactly makes such manipulative people tick. The word “psychopath” is used quite often as well and we see many of the traits we know are unhealthy within the hierarchy of corporations and “successful” business leaders, as well as the “suicide bankers” that Max Keiser refers to, who seem to rather enjoy “exploding the economic situations” where people and companies depend their livelihoods upon.

    Even if they are head of a company or a country, don’t be fooled into thinking that their manipulations are any less destructive as that of the personal murderer who kills for thrills, in fact their words and actions often kill more. But never mind that. I have come to the idea that although people may have the incentive, and the planetary configurations which often elude to key points of character which may or may not be emphasized; just like these ideas of genetics with “nature verses nurture” we must be careful in believing in a predestination just based upon something that seems to be there.

    I see many cases of these types having had a very difficult childhood, but it too does not mean that everyone who has ever had a difficult childhood is predisposed to extreme crime or any crime.

    I had recently taken a look at the interviews with Aileen Wuornos considered the “most prolific female serial killer” as her methodology was killing strangers, like male serial killers seem to, and although she seemed to have “won sympathy”, this is a really pathetic story of someone who had been abandoned by her mother, to other members of her own family, molested by the time she was 8 by a family friend and then when she tried to talk about it, she was beaten for even saying it. Then I think the clincher was the fact the molestation made her not value her self and made her own sexuality disposable and impersonal, she became pregnant at 13 and was sent away and forced to give the child up for adoption (without her permission), came back to the only home she knew and then ran away dropping out of school and became a prostitute. She also tried to kill herself a number of times just to end her own life. (sort of taking the idea that Murder may be in fact an extroverted suicide to another level)

    I recall she had a Pisces birthday, but I don’t no much more about the aspects than looking into the fact that this person was probably not born a “serial killer” but made into one, having had to live in the “survival zone” so many years-

    Was she manipulative, quite probably yes, was she an abuser of drugs or alcohol, yes, was she pushed to the edge of the most ugly horrific side of life that humanity has to offer, yes. Do we empathize that although for years “Ted Bundy” had been portrayed as the “all American boy” with a perfect family life, and that serial killers were not this, it was in fact another lie as well. We (the public) do not know all the details about his biological mother posing as his sister, and then moving away with him had concerning abuse and his daily life, but we may also find out that “Bundy” like that of the case of “Henry Lee Lucas” was desperately abused by the conditions of his mother’s daily habits which have also included prostitution, and witnessing it, creating a very warped view of sexuality for the formation of these people who were merely boys at the time of their abuse.

    Take note that many of the victims of these men (and women) resemble in some way those who abused them..

    The most insidious of the females are those who do not act openly, those who poison, murder in secret; those who are not caught, those who manipulate and keep an entire family under hostage, but they too must have been abused at one point so horribly that they can find nothing creative other than to do harm and to justify this harm, with what they themselves may call “crocodile tears” saying “I was abused and knew no other way to maintain some sense of control and safety..”

    What I think is more shocking is that now, these days, the way the children are treated in general; with all the revolutions in nutrition, and parenting, we find ourselves, as mothers observing the world of the “normal” ( or is it just me?) in horror.

    Children treated and fed like no more than just animals or pets as an extension of the parent’s ideology. Infants allowed to be crawling around and about on the ground in unsanitary places such as trains, and subways, with plastic/rubbery things stuffed into their mouths (to supposedly satisfy their sucking urges since they couldn’t possibly be hungry..and to suppress baby sounds) and all of this in the scope of some kind of gentle form of care.

    Think about how few infants are breast fed these days, and the age that most are stopped from doing so (about 6 months) when it was normal in a kinder time, to breast feed up to 1 year and a half to 4 years.

    Infant formulas are actually changing the brain chemistry as well, I believe. Since these things can not even possibly mimic the nutrition and hormones and enzymes of human mother’s milk. Not to mention the core emotional state of the infant when given this close nurturing… certainly, we can see an effect not just with the drugs but possibly the self medicating that people are doing to themselves, and these diagnoses of ADHD and such, as well as the obvious formation of the brain.

    So we are being primed, for possibly the last 100 years, to become different than we once were. Is it progress? One of my older neighbours mentioned that people are “different” these days, the youth, callus and hard. Perhaps he’s right, they, in this country are the ones who have had all these new measures in place for the past 17 years. Every child need not have to be an orphan to feel as disconnected. Just as not all orphans feel a sense of destructiveness, not everyone is going to feel loved within their own family no matter how much love they seem to get, but apparently, those who’s brains have been undeniably damaged by early child abuse, may not recover or gain a full sense of moral responsibility.

    We can’t forget this because we are being, collectively, by various methods, desensitized and abused, either by institutional levels of abuse (considered care such as norms in how babies are nurtured and fed and over-vaccination(which has been noted to cause brain disorders and schizophrenia))

    I think if we are not allowed to do that which is natural out of some form of “convenience” we loose sight of what our own humanity is, and then we collectively create the violent and deceptive individuals we see as “psychopaths” and even make their ways seem acceptable, collectively so.

    _________

    The model of parenting my grandmother was taught in the modern world was started during pregnancy, (she must have been a part of a horrible experiment) taught that the infant growing did not need any “extra nutrition” that the weight accumulated would be difficult to remove, and that infants were to be taught hard and fast discipline. Also to feed the infant “pablum” almost as soon as they were one month old to keep the belly of the baby full and to keep the mothers able to work, not to forget the use of baby drugs of the time.

    I’m surprised my mother survived. Much less me. But this is where the abuse begins, the productivity of the human species when it comes to “motherhood”, the time spent on caring for the young is not valued.. breast milk a luxury, when these are the rights of every living creature.

    Imagine if this was the norm instead of the chicken house of productivity, the work the school yard, but the home and everyone had at least that early stuff in order.. I bet we would see much fewer of these seriously damaged people creating damage upon others. The next levels of abuse comes later, and is just as serious, but my feeling is that everyone does not need to start their lives out as brain damaged by certain “rules” of the culture. And I believe its a universal thing.

    ————
    (I don’t believe that 12 degrees 35 Virgo qualifies as Zomosa Moon, but then I don’t know how wide that orb is for this star concerning the Moon, but I do have Moon at an approaching conjunction to Pluto in Virgo in the 4th house so I guess its one aspect that makes me feel passionately about the upbringing and abuse of children) (I also have that Mercury conjunct BML on the point of the horn of Taurus, associated with violence, but with Mercury, (12th house, fading square to Pluto but approaching Square to Uranus in the 4th house, and Mercury being both 4th house and 1st house ruler. Certainly Uranus is squared my ASC. I would like to believe my perceptions of darkness within us are tools for good…)

    1. i don’t know if times were ever kinder, but in some countries babies are still “allowed” to breastfeed up to 3 or 4 years. i breastfeed my son still and he’s almost 4. from my experiences there is a difference between the behavior and vibes of kids who are breastfed and those who are not. there is a certain spark. of course, even if you breastfeed and provide that necessary skin-to-skin intimacy, a child exposed to corporal punishment will eventually lose that spark. people are sociopathic and psychopathic because of early experiences and treatment. psychopathology is causal and its root is always in infancy and childhood. the works of alice miller should be required reading for parents- and grandparents-to-be. i would say the percentage of people who are BORN without a conscience is probably less than 1%, if even that. it’s interesting to see how it manifests in the birth chart.

    2. I noticed this too about breast fed infants vs non breast fed infants– I too breast fed (to the embarrassment of my mother in law)for nearly 4 years old… and maybe I should have continued if the environment had not been so hostile about it. I had the philosophy after seeing the relaxed and comfortable baby laying in my arms that this is obviously not only the natural solution for many of the problems of our “modern societies” but to allow the child to be a child, comfort in the arms of mother and father, and the joy of life itself.

      From the video link that I posted, it seems this is what may be missing in our social landscape of violence… that if this pleasure of life and living existed first, that maybe we collectively we would be less violent and accepting of the psychopathy that seems interwoven in our complex “modern” societies.

    3. Surely Genghis Khan, Hitler and Ed Gein were most likely breastfed, given the time they were born. And so many countless other odd bods have been.
      Bundy may well have been breast fed, born in 1946.
      Peter Kurten must have been breast fed… born 1883.
      Can you explain what “born without a conscience” means and how you compute “less than 1%” – its an interesting stat. and how this shows up in the chart?

    4. We can hardly imagine how we would be if born into a natural environment and left alone from vaccines, meds, surgery, interference and of course, psychiatric diagnosis.

      We’ve all been brain damaged, as vaccines and drugs, toxic poisonous industrial waste and nuclear radiation fallout from countless military exercises. All because a race or tribes of some psychopathic cult managed over time to build a global asylum which they could run and manage without hindrance.

    5. Nothing wrong with Zosma moons! I know too many. They are either my saviors or my victims….mmmwwwaaahhhh ha ha ;)! I just drew up your chart. I give Zosma a 2 deg orb since its a 2 mag star and close to the ecliptic. Yours is off the Moon by 1 deg 42′. From what you describe about how you feel about mothering I certainly think this fits. Funny that you also have that same boomerang Yod that Jamie has, except instead of Mercury/Venus on Spica you have Ceres! Super mum. Though it must be said that this is the very same Yod as Gerry McCann, only he had Mars square Pluto and some other unsavory combos. You do have Moon quincunx Eris, so I see the activist in you.
      I count Mars/Venus as a problem when its exact and on a dodgy star. My orbs would not say yours was a conjunction, but instead a lovely Venus on Sirius conjunct the Sun powerful in the first AND you have Moon sextile Venus by only 02′! Very sweet indeed. Oh yes and two internecting yods gives what is known as “The Bathtub” according to the Hubers. So much at 23-25 degrees.
      Ha ha your Mercury on my Jupiter Yod apex. That means this last Lesath eclipse must be opposite your Mercury and we are both having our toxic Mercury fillings removed in these 6 months.. Nice synchro!

    6. Interesting synchronicity is also present with your Mars/BML combo in Aquarius because it forms an end of a “Grand Trine” in the synastry. (BTW I also have that Ceres conjunct Eros.. not just that Spica/Arcturus combo) And the Sun is the midpoint for Venus and Mars and at 9 degrees on that fixed star “Alhena” you wrote about for the eclipse. Certainly a center point of opposites, no wonder why extremes are so interesting to me!

      I think ideologically I would be considered a “super mum” on the end of nurturing being an end all be all, but I fear I fall short sometimes in practice and about loosing my temper, but I realize where it comes from and why. Its time pressures and considerations I make for other adults, and how they may feel..

      In the woods I have been fasting, and yes, I plan to get at least one side of my mouth de-mercuried by the end of August. I actually feel quite healthy and am in the process of breaking this fast.. I started my fast after that last Lunar eclipse, for “maximum pull” Since it was technically the height of the Fullness, I figured the body was full of water enough to pull more toxic waste as well as toxic habits out of the system.. and I think I was correct.

      It is a nice synchro 🙂 Thanks for the kindness of having a look at the chart, to make me feel less “psychopathic” 😉

  27. Since I read this post I really wanted to share something about the research of Dr. Jim Fallon. He has done genetic research and neurology research regarding convicted psychopathic killers.

    Having the MAOA Gene is only one factor, there has to be a pattern seriously violent or traumatic event in a person’s early life prior to puberty in order to activate this psychopathological nature and there also has to be some sort of brain damage, a part of the brain that is actually shut off. (He has done research also using EEG, and MRI scans of convicted munderers).

    5 minute video outlining James Fallon’s research
    https://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/jim_fallon_exploring_the_mind_of_a_killer.html

    Spolier warning (don’t read on if you want to see the video first): When Jim Fallon’s mother found out he was doing this research she told him that he was “talking about this like he was from a normal family” and he said ‘What do you mean?” she went on to tell him that he had two famous murders in his family history and others (I think there is a total of seven murderers in his family tree).

    After Jim found this out, he decided to do PET Scans, EEG, MRI and genetic analysis to see if anyone in his current family had the gene, and or the brain patterns. Everyone checked out OK, much to his relief, there was one exception, however, Jim found out that, he, himself, had two of the three key factors that can also be found with known murderers in the study.

    There was another story I saw on a prime time news program in 2010 about Jim’s unique childhood.(wish I could find it) He was the youngest of six children, his mother was asked in the interview if she ‘doted on her son’ and she said “No with six children how could I, but we all just loved Jimmy so, we all thought he was such a sweet boy, we just loved him every chance we got.” Jim also describes his childhood as good, an I can see a sigh of relief in his face when he says this because I think he knows how lucky he is. He describes his siblings as very loving to him. (There were many childhood photos in the news program and you can see in the eyes of his siblings that they are children who have a comfortable sense of themselves as is often seen with well loved and cared for children).

    People who have met Jim Fallon describe him as a warm and loving man who makes everyone feel welcome. As far as Jim knows he has never killed anyone, nor wanted to kill anyone and this puts the strongest exclamation point on the importance of environment on the mind. Even a person who has the markers, the lock that fits the key, without the crucial key violent events in early childhood this killer potential never gets unlocked.

    I would love to see Jim Fallon’s chart. Also those murderers in his family – some famous enough to have had their charts done would also be interesting to see.

    I found this awesome interview of Dr. J.H.Fallon describing why he thinks he did not become a psychopathic killer.
    https://biglicknews.blogspot.com/2010/08/three-ingredients-for-murder.html

    What his research brings home to me is that even if a person has the potential to be a psychopath, even if it is evident in their astrological chart, and even if it is evident in their brain and genetic analysis, this does not mean they will turn out poorly and the opposite could be true.

    I really love this story on James Fallon, I am still researching things from this article on psychopaths – I am grateful for all the wonderful comments!

    Thanks again Jamie and Marina!

    =) Kjerstin

    1. Really fascinating Kjerstin. I see he’s on youtube too. I could imagine a great crime story based on his work, of a doctor who does the research then comfortable murders because its in his genes and he must fulfil his genetic destiny… (but that’s my PLuto Mercury in the 12th talking!!)

      Personally, I think there are other factors in addition to genes and astrology – which is the quality of the spirit and the soul’s journey. And of course in the full picture, the correspondences of the victims is also important.

      In her book on PLuto and Fate, Liz Green made the point that there were two people involved in a rape/murder etc both doing the steps of a dance neither one of them understood.

      I recently watched a documentary about Peter Manuel, Scottish serial killer who’s chart I posted here and I was struck that he had odd moments which seem to take him into an area of sheer bewilderment at what he was doing.

      But then that may be just the psychopath talking… He’s out of fashion, but M Scott Peck’s book People of the Lie is a really interesting read on psychopathic behaviour on a subtle then descending scale.
      If you’re researching psychopathy, you must have looked at Manson’s chart?? And seen him interviewed – I think the interviews are on youtube – almost unbearable to watch he is so mad, but fascinating too.
      After reading the last chapter of Scott Peck’s book and comparing Wournos and Manson I and convinced they were/are possessed.

      The element of trauma in childhood lends to this theory as it skews/shocks the subtle bodies and since children are so vulnerable to psychic attack, well the gates are open to lesser forms.

      Another one for the collection – interesting he called his little group The Family. He caught the end of the PLuto in Cancer generation – many of whom have lived through two world wars. I wonder if the collective killing spirit was just clawing its last breaths with him?

    2. @Uberqueen

      I agree with you that it is a whole picture of the souls journey and one or two factors are not enough to make a sociopath.

      My research actually, and sadly, is into my own relatives. After reading this article I am re-reading some of their charts, any looking into someone like Manson would be for comparision of these significant points mentioned in the article above.

      @Marina, (((((hugs))))) I hear you about having my share of sociopaths in my life, been there, done that. I have pretty much moved on from that thankfully, I can now spot a sociopath a mile away, can you also? What interests me most is not how much bad you or I have seen in human behavior, it is how you and I and anyone else who has seen the dapravity of man keeps a good heart through all of it?

      @uberqueen, as to possession, that is another valid level to this discussion. I agree it can be another important factor.

      Thanks all for a great discussion, I am enjoying what I am learning!

      =) Kjerstin

    3. Thanks Kjerstin, I heard James Fallon on the radio a few weeks ago, and when Marina posted this I knew his story was intensely relevant to this thread, but couldn’t remember his name

  28. According to this I’m a psychopath…Saturn opposes my moon, sun and ascendant… I thought that Fomalhaut was 3 degrees Pisces not Aquarius? Great read…I think it would be great to include the degrees of these fixed stars…so we can refer to our own charts, if I may. 🙂 …my son has Saturn in the 12th and his north node, should I be worried?

    1. I don’t think you should be worried or think you are a psychopath! I’m sure 99% of people that read this blog have at least a couple of these Darkstars, probably more, I mean like attracts like hey?.. or maybe we are just ALL psychopaths 😉 And my daughter has Lilith on Algol, like Hitler…

      I have now put the degrees in for the stars. Thanks for reminding me!

      Oh also re: Fomalhaut. It’s tropical co-ordinates are indeed Pisces, but it’s actually positioned on the southern fish under the foot of the waterbearer which is not the same as the fishes in Pisces at all. This fish is floating in the water coming out from the urn of Aquarius so for me Fomalhaut is Aquarian in nature not Piscean.

  29. Hi I was on your site and I think it was another link that offered a free list of the “stars” related to my chart. Or it was your site but I do not see it now. Can you help direct me to the right site. The information said it would take a bit because it is hand done by an individual.It feels like a few weeks…I am new to your site. Thanks, Marcie

  30. I love, love, love this article! I’m glad I read it until the last line, because my comment was going to be quite different. I have these stars and aspects, which I’ve known for years, but I’m not a psychopath. Unfortunately, I’ve attracted them, though, which I knew was being shown with my fs’s. The chart of the victim is often like the chart of the victimizer, which I’m sure you’ve noted. Anyway, like you said at the end, I am glad I have these aspects and fs’s, because without them I would’ve been beaten and probably wouldn’t have survived as well as I did.

    1. Thanks Lillian, I’m glad you read until the end too! I went through my friends and noted their so called “psycho” aspects, a few that were in toxic relationships both abuser and abused had a similar amount. The Davison charts were really interesting. When I have time “Toxic Relationships” follows on from this one. I’ve been looking at the Wests, sid and nancy, amy & blake…

  31. You’re welcome! I’ve also noticed the psycho aspects and stars in murder/rape victims and the perpetrators, so I’m positive I’m onto something with this. I look forward to your article, “Toxic Relationships!”

  32. Please help me. I am very confused with myself. I think I am psicho. I am 25. My life is awful. :I

    This is my chart

    Thank you

    1. I doubt that you are a psycho if you are aware of your shadow. That’s half the battle. Also, one thing you cannot tell in a chart, is how evolved the soul is. Both Gandhi and Myra Hindley have Moon square Mars and you can see how they have both used this potentially “psycho” aspect in totally opposite but equally potent ways.

  33. thank U very much. Please, I want ask U some more thing. If I may.
    I do not know much about astrology. Please, explain to me my chart. I must find hope. (sorry for bad english). Please.

    Real psycho CAN be awere of it. I am finding my last hope.

    1. I’m really sorry patronus, I cannot read the chart you posted even if I had the time. We might look at the odd chart, but its rare and usually reserved for those regular commenters that we know well. Otherwise we dont do free readings. Especially not now. See explanation. https://marinadarkstar.wpengine.com/readings/

  34. Hi Jamie and Marina, I can never find most of the fixed stars that you mention in your writings on Astro.com. If they are there under a different name, it might be really helpful if you would add the number of the star. Do you have a list that explains some of these fixed stars and what they mean in various houses? They really add a lot of detail I see as I read your posts and find them really interesting so would love to know more! Thank you!

    1. Astro.com do not list all the stars. You cannot look them up like you can the asteroids. As quite a few people have been asking this we are now drawing up fixed star charts for $19. I have added a button here. Excuse the mess I made of the fixed star list. I just mucked up the code adding the button. Jamie Mr technical wake up please!!!
      https://marinadarkstar.wpengine.com/fixed-stars/

  35. “A true psychopath cannot be cured.”
    And we don’t want to be, thank you very much. ^_^

    I’m fond of this site and I share your interest in the connection between astrology and psychopathy, but you are (as most people) painfully ignorant on the latter subject. Although I’ll admit that you’ve clearly done more research than the majority, who take psychopathy as the glamourized (or should I say mutilated?) concept that is presented to them in the media, your summary of “what a psychopath is”, remains a few lightyears short of accuracy. 😛

    “It is a brain deficiency which you can see under an MRI scan.”
    It’s true that some people are psychopathic BECAUSE of a brain deficiency. But the “disorder” and the deficiency are not one in the same. The majority of psychopaths could not be identified through brain scans.

    “They are born without empathy”
    Human beings are born a blank slate, save for predisposition. One can be born predisposed to psychopathy, but one develops it not through nature, but through nurture.
    (With the exception of those born with the aforementioned brain deficiencies.)

    “and their prime motivation is survival.”
    Everyones prime motivation is survival. The difference is that psychopaths are those that society failed to condition to pretend it isn’t so.

    “They get an adrenaline rush from exploiting people and getting away with it.”
    Some do, some don’t. Just as with everyone. A man with a conscience might get the same rush. He’d just feel the guilt afterwards. In my experience, I definitely would not list this as a symptom.

    “They have to win at all costs”
    Again, some do, some don’t. It’s not a symptom. Although I believe you may be somewhat incorporating the symptoms of related disorders, such as Narcisstistic, Histrionic, or Borderline Personality Disroders. Of which those traits are much more common.

    “These people have no real creativity, so tend to plagiarize;”
    Alright, you just pulled that out of your ass. Not only is that untrue, I have never heard or witnessed anything remotely like it. That, to my knowledge, has never been a documented trait of psychopaths according to ANY credible source on the matter. Do you have some personal vendetta against psychopaths? I mean… aside from generally flowing with the rest of society in “burning the witches”, so-to-speak?

    “they don’t know who they are”
    That’s about as laughably vague and irrelevant as when people list “inability to feel love” as a symptom.

    “so the only way they can gain potency in their lives is by sucking the life (sometimes literally), money or ideas out of someone else.”
    And you know this from your vast personal experience with psychopaths? XD

    As for your list of traits, most of those belong to NPD, HPD, or BPD, as I said before. Though a few are applicable. People often confuse them because these disorders (all being Cluster B disorders), tend to “stick together”. Most people who have one, have others in the same cluster. A lot of psychopaths are narcissistic, histrionic, or borderline. So it can be difficult for outside observers to differenciate.

    The field of psychology (and it’s practitioners) is so diluded, that the majority of information out there, if not total crap, puts a rather small-minded slant on personality disorders. All personality disorders. Even the ones we’re not taught to fear.
    Until you’ve had a personal relationship with numerous psychopaths, you’re really in no position to pass judgement on the disorder. Even if you know one, you can judge that one to high hell, for all I care. Or two, or three, for that matter. But it’s like saying, after meeting one or two noisy Italians, that being noisy is a symptom of being Italian. 😛 (Which isn’t… entirely true. >.<)

    (Oh and also, we're not "incapable" of empathy. Our empathy is merely inhibited. Granted, some psychopaths can go their entire lives without feeling any empathy for anyone. But in my experience, the majority have felt in. Wether it be aroused only under certain rare circumstances, only for a certain person, or something to that effect. My psychopathy is actually fairly mild compared to many. I feel empathy for animals. All animals. So I get a regular taste of it. And I feel empathy for rape victims. I was never raped, so I'm not sure why (maybe it's my Lilith in Scorpio or something….), but I've always been that way. And I only recently grew to love another human being. Only one, but it's real love

    1. You really should not take any psychological criteria this seriously; as psychology itself is mainly a science of prejudices and generalizations. That someone trusts (creating) psychological criteria is only a sign that the person is very uncritical.

      When you look at criticisms put forward by anti-psychiatry, vague symptoms and symptoms that can be linked to several “disorders” are ones that are at the top of the list. When such lists are mainstream, you can label anyone with a single so called symptom, and then the person is “abnormal”. So, listing some qualifications based on very subjective evaluations and observations really does not mean anything. Such lists work for the categorization, oppression and manipulation of differences so that these can be controlled and everyone can be comfortable with the mainstream culture, system, behaviours. That’s why psychiatrists are given power by the state to shut down someone to a clinic with just a simple label. (https://forces-nl.org/download/szasz.pdf) . That’s why homosexuality for instance was a disease in DSM until the middle of 70’s.

      Pshychiatrist Daniel Carlat in his book Unhinged talks about how the symptoms of depression are created. He asks one of the members of the DSM committe why there are 5 symptoms of depression and the reply is “6 would be too many, and 4 seemed to me too few.”

      Schopenhauer was a misantroph and he was extremely ascoial, his books are filled with sentences how stupid all humanity is. If he was a teenager now, he could well be labeled anti-social and drugged and electroshocked and whatever, and as a result there would be no schopenhauer.

      For Thomas Szasz’ website against psychiatry you can visit: https://www.cchr.org/

      Wiki article is fine about history of anti-psychiatry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry

    2. That’s a really great point Esr. I don’t like labels, and I know I have kind of dug my own grave here. Language is limiting, but we have to start some where. What I’m really saying is Psychopath +Astrology discuss.

    3. Thanks Tauri, I just found this. I’m interested to know why you think you are a psychopath? What your understanding of a psychopath is and mine seem to be two separate things. Are you sure you just haven’t got Antares strongly placed in your chart? https://marinadarkstar.wpengine.com/antares/

      Now as for my experience with psychopaths. Well you may be right, I probably do have a personal vendetta having experienced the direct results of them at very close hand.. I actually believe the world today, is turning more and more people into psychopaths through the use of anti-depressants and the various ways our connection with nature and are emotions are being numbed and deadened by TV, video games, junk food, microwaves, wifi…I could go on and on.

      I have personal experience with narcissists and Aspergers and yes the traits can be VERY similar, but they are certainly not psychopaths. Hey I may even be a psychopath myself since I am strongly Uranian/Pluto and to quote myself “they don’t know who they are”! I am open to that. My fascination for the darkside of human nature must be a symptom of something….I’m also interested in Psychic Vampirism too which is similar. It is interesting that the Doc who ( I wish I could remember his name. I watched a documentary on it.) conducted the study into psychopaths brains found he also had the same brain pattern. And here also the BBC presenter: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1345131/BBC-presenter-Michael-Mosleys-shocking-discovery-thanks-revolutionary-brain-scan.html

      I’m an astrologer, not a psychiatrist. I’m just theorising here, but I know there are plenty out there who have written similar things about psychopaths and they also say there is a lack of true creativity. To me that makes sense and if others think this too then I pulled this out of the collectives arse 😉

      PS. I am also a noisy Italian

    4. I don’t know… you don’t sound like a psychopath, you just sound a little cross.
      But herewith a small question.
      “only one but its real love” – can you explain what real love is? And how would this explanation qualify “real” in the capacity of a. a psychopath, b. a wannabee psychopath, c. any other kind of psychopath, d. a mere mortal.

  36. Ugh… somehow I posted that before it was finished. XP

    Oh well, I was just about done anyways. You get my point. You can’t study the relationship between astrology and psychopathy unless you know what psychopathy really is. And you’ll never understand it by reading psychology books.

  37. I’ve been wondering about the psychopathic indicators within our charts for many years. Yes, it makes perfect sense that the planets would show up the potential (as all charts do) for abuse and in which house etc.

    However, without such aides, I’ve found that there are common big dots which join at the hip so to speak, and they make perfect sense when the beliefs, traditions and backgrounds of those committing the greatest crimes against humanity and nature are examined and understood.

    They are all Monarchs; of military nobility and they all believe that theirs is the superior race, separate and invincible from the mass of people. Neptune/Leo – delusions of granduer. Or Pluto/Leo Rule by Divine Right. They are all psychopathic. Homosexual and pederastic. The Jews control the programming of their own and all children via media which reflects their own psychosis as a mirror for the masses to accept as their own in a narcissistic trance. They are deeply religious of course, having created all contemporary religious factions. They did of course, create contemporary, popular astrology. But they always planned their military campaigns in accordance with the cycles of nature and guidance of the stars.

    Checking out Vlad the Impaler, Dahmer, all the bankers, monarchs and their ex vet lunatics and you’ll find military, judaism/masonry/extreme child abuse/ritual ritual and more ritual (think Islam) and you’ll find the most lowly to the most high are mainly jews or advised by jews. Their

    They are bred selectively over many generations to emphasise the traits of psychopathic ruthlessness and total allegiance. There is no free will aspect unless it’s slaughtering the herd on command.

    Psychopaths are also born within the general population, it is assumed, but even so, there are possibly social/cultural/genetic themes in play as the military impregnate anything that moves.

    They can be easily made too, from military training and action and on the unfortunate receiving end of it. Head traumas, chemical kosh, MK-ULTRA, torture and a steady diet of pornographic media violence does the job just as well.

    1. Yes! I believe they can be made too (even adults and for the reasons you stated)! Our minds / bodies are at once strong yet fragile.

    2. what a highly racist, anti-Islam, anti-Jew and homophobiac comment is this? really, this kind of thought is the last thing the world needs. you seem to be completely relying on the stereotyping the media you condemn draws.

      Jews are not very religious people, just like every country there are fundementalists in Israel too. you seem to watch many things about the fundementalists in Israel. I live in the Middle East and in a Muslim country; and daily life is not filled with ritual, ritual and ritual. you yourself in fact seem sort of brainwashed. the less one knows, the stronger one is opinionated.

      i well know the “conspiracy theories” you are talking about, however you don’t need to be subjected to MK-ULTRA to be a psychopath. being mistreated a lot or being unjustly treated may well make someone heartless and cruel.

      If you really don’t want a steady diet of pornographic media, you should go to Iran, you’d feel perfect there because the government there is homophobiac and anti-semitic, just like you. Oh sorry, you just hated Islam too.

      you seem to me to be a fundementalist christian, is that what you are?-just wondered.

  38. there is a way out and that is to connect w/ the divine. Remembering that god has a human mind and so loves appreciation and gradidute. So when you see something lovely in the natural world, a flower, beautiful day, pretty creature, express thankfulness in thought form and feel a shower of golden atoms of positive feelings that is a connection w/ the divine. Next say your sorry for you faults and ask for help.

    This also helps in healing differences…think a positive thought towards a relative you may have crossed w/ and hope for the best. it doesn’t work as well w/ people and one doesn’t have to keep trying…if you want to dissengage, wish them well and forget about them.

    Astrology is a science, spirit flows through and spirit is subject to divine guidance

    1. Lucy, thank you for this simple reminder, it is a gem. I just saw it x

  39. Hi Marina,

    Fabulous article — yet again!

    Mars direct is a great time to write about or contemplate this topic. It’s been bubbling over in my mind ‘again’ so I’m so happy to see you’ve written about it as it’s very interesting to read!

    I first wanted to tackle the topic last summer when the Cardinal T-square (Mercury, Uranus, Pluto) was activated but it’s such a HUGE subject. I wonder if you felt like you were opening up a can of worms when you delved into it.

    I have a number of charts I’ve been working on for an article about the “Astrology of Bullying” and bullies are often sociopathic.

    Anyway, with the research I’ve done so far — I can support your assertion that “Black Moon Lilith (also Pluto) in aspect to the AC” is a strong indicator especially if it’s on the DC and 1° or less.

    And it seems that the opposition with Moon and Pluto (and BML) comes up the most as it relates to potential psychopathy.

    Like you mentioned, not every native who has these signatures is a psychopath. And in fact, they may be a fighter of psychopaths, treat, or attract them so I’m glad you ended the article with that. It’s a sensitive topic, for sure.

    Warm regards,
    Abella

  40. Thanks for sharing that Fletcher. It’s always amazing how the aspects play out. Eris is a tough one isnt it? How it effects the children is the most awful thing. I think psychopaths latch onto them because their boundaries are weak and sadly no matter how badly some parents treat their children sometimes the poor kid still idolises the abuser causing real damage to the psyche. Its true, sometimes the children are better off no knowing them. Very sad.

    1. Thanks Marina… great article! I know a mid-age guy who is still controlled by dead psychopathic mother. It’s truly amazing how far her deep controlling lies go. He’s thrown away the ultimate (neptune/venus/venus conjunct) soulmate relationship because of his controlling dead mother.

      So anyway, this must be the year for make or break because he has Pluto crossing his ASC, progressed Pluto crossing his DSC and solar arc Pluto crossing his midheaven all in 2013. He has a Jupiter yod in his natal chart, with Venus/Neptune sextile Pluto. As you have mentioned before about Jupiter yods, he must have some special mission to deal with. I guess it’s all about lies, murder and betrayal rolled into one lifetime.

  41. where is the mars? and the moon? and venus? mercury? i am interested to see the aspects to those, placements and signs.

  42. Just a short post about a female psychopath to whom I was married for more than 20 years. Certified psychopath, no doubt and no need for details. Trust me. Not only destroyed my life but sent our 2 daughters to mental institutions. A master in deception with an extraordinary career in Wall Street. Libra rising, Neptune in the first square(perfect orb) Venus. Mars in the 12th/Libra ruler of 7th (obviously). Moon in Pisces conjunct Saturn in the 5th (2 degrees orb) in almost perfect opposition Uranus conjunct Plutoin the 11th. Yes,you guessed it right. But … Sun in Cancer conjunct MC!

  43. What about a mass of psychopaths in one area, or at least some psychopaths orchestrating events. Believe it or not this is a position I find myself in. I live in a small area, where everything is intense and deeply personal. The local exchange is gossip. But there are some who know this and engineer events for there favour. When I moved here pluto was at 5 of sagg. Add this though to my big opposition between pisces and virgo. at the time transiting pluto t-squared my natal mars/sun in pisces and uranus in virgo and later transited to t-squaring pluto/moon in virgo while at the same time t-squaring chiron in pisces. I am still here and still live with those events. Although I have learned a lot about the depths to which most people will go I will not be unmarked by this area.

    1. Wales, UK. Or more specifically Mid-West-Wales. Cowboy country. And incidentally at the time I moved here pluto was also conjunct natal lilith.

  44. Hi Marina – re Lesath, how would its opposition to a planet effect in the natal chart? As strong as a conjunction or perhaps more insidious?
    I know someone with Lesath oppSaturn exact. A bit of a nasty and certainly one I have described as poisonous.

  45. I’m sorry ya’ll,
    but you are all way off with this article, very irresponsible of you to even posts such things, whoever did.
    Can’t you see in the comments that this is a highly destructive post?
    People finding similair planetary allignments, and being scared like hell, in this case, astrology goes to far.
    It’s just like saying everyone born under 1 degrees of gemini is destined to be a nascar race driver.
    But still, all these people being hurt by individuals and looking for blame,
    and this time, through astrology and the time of birth which an individual cannot control.
    Way way off, I’d say this tread is psychotic and sociopathic in the highest degree.

    1. Simon the reason I wanted to study these stars is that I have some of them and so do some of my closest friends and family. But looking back at it I think I agree that I may have fallen prey to Weitiko. I have since done a great deal of research on the shadow and feel I have to rewrite this article and talk about this more in the sense of the shadow and Weitiko:

      “Wetiko psychosis is at the very root of humanity’s inhumanity to itself in all its various forms. As a species, we need to step into and participate with our own spiritual and psychological evolution, which means that we must focus our attention on and contemplate this ‘topic of topics’ before this virulent madness destroys us. Up until this point in our history we have been too easily distracted by the ruses of the wetiko bug itself. The disease itself is now demanding that we pay attention to it, or it will kill us.” Paul levy. Reality sandwich. Wetiko.

      I need to place more stress on the importance of these stars in fighting the psychopaths high up in government and the church. That what was i was getting at. I really DON”T want to scare people. The whole point of my website it to discuss these stars and see what they can mean in the modern world. That’s why I have written about Algol and Antares in, I hope, a sympathetic manner.

      My conclusion in the above article maybe needs repeating and highlighting:

      “But in order to deal with these people one needs some heavy duty darkstars in ones weaponry. It’s no good fighting Pluto with a fluffy pink Moon/Venus marshmallow. Throwing love at them will not work. Those of you born with any of the above aspects, be thankful you have them. They are a blessing not a curse.

    2. thank you for your reply,
      I did not mean to sound condescending seeing as you put a lot of work into this article,
      and i like that some astrologers think outside the box as opposed to the “weekly forecast” types who only generalize too much.
      And I agree, it is very necessary to put pressure on strain on the corrupt individuals within politics and the church,
      I live in Norway, and I cannot stand politicians, mainly because they know their hypocrisy, they know within themselves what they are saying is not true, they know better in other words,
      But still chose to deny that inner voice of concsience.
      Maybe there is some force within the political and church structures that goes beyond astrology some times, and that the corruption and lies is sorta a part of the environment, and thus creating its own natal chart within those systems, like a synastry chart, but between many many people all contributing to that “one” chart and the energies expressed through it if you get what I’m saying ;P
      Kinda like an entirely new natal wheel being manifested by the thoughts and actions of those within the banking structures and such, and the energies being directed towards algol and antares and such.
      But I was kinda insulted when zosma (the star of prophecy and divination) in the back of leo, where I have my jupiter, and formalhaut, which I have in exact conjunction with mercury conjunct sun 28 degrees of aquarius, seeing as I reckon formalhaut to be a very artistic star,
      and I was just happy that I had jupiter in leo as opposed to virgo ;-P
      Don’t know if I have ascendant conjunct alderbradan though, hope not, it depends if I were born 9:29 am or 9:32 am, I reckon the latter in 11 degrees gemini conjunct tabit (sure hope so)
      But anyways, hoping for more fixed stars, you are doing an excellent job with those 🙂

    3. Hey, nothing wrong with Zosma and Fomalhaut! I was surprised to see Fomalhaut actually, but then not because they can be very idealistic in love and maybe fall for nasty partners who manipulate them into wrong doing.

      Zosma made me laugh because it’s my husbands Moon. I did a bit of a personal scoring of everyone close to me and some friends of friends who were, shall we say, on the shady side. It all seemed to fit. But I was rather worried when one of the top scorers was… my own husband! Make of that what you will 😉

    4. Like, just as there is free will,
      and like the freemasons chose to direct their focus towards the star Sirius (the all seeing eye)
      also known as anubis the dog,
      maybe some people without knowing direct their energies towards the “damaging stars,” and when behavior that is encouraged resonates with the energies of those “not so pleasant stars” those stars find its host through environments and certain people, if you get my drift ;P
      Anyways,
      keep up the good work,
      really hoping for more fixed stars though, my favorite 🙂

  46. oh, and the psycho stars,,,, my grandmoher has four inner planets in scorpio, one of the kindest and most caring grandmother out there. astrology isnt made to point fingers, its meant to guide people, not to curse them,, do more fixed stars as opposed to this bullshit, because those posts are actyally informative and exciting

    1. As you progress with your astrolgical pursuits, you’ll realise that in the models most astrologers use there is something missing – namely the indicator of your soul’s level of incarnation.
      Astrology does and will point fingers both good, bad and indifferent since people come in varying degrees of those qualities. e.g “my grandmoher has four inner planets in scorpio, one of the kindest and most caring grandmother out there.”
      But then so does Charles Manson. Don’t do astrology if you aren’t willing to be scared now and again. Its not a Hallmark Art.

  47. shipman’s chart brings to mind, dzhokhar tsarneav, younger bro.in boston bombing…the idea of committing murder and getting away with it! shipman, uranius/gemini/moon/conq/trine/neptune/libra/grand to pluto/leo was ideal working enviornment for his cap/sun/venus/conq/opp/saturn/mars/cong ….bet he rationalized his lust fro snuffing out elderly women , (for the most part), as to unburden society, (sat/mars). the can/cap opp often produces extreme hatred of women, mother, abandonment by women, in women fear of men.
    in dzhokhar 7/22/1993 uranius/neptune is conq. in cap. sextile pluto/scorpio opp mercury held the illusion of causing mass casualities, working out at U. mass amherst gym, meeting Tamerlan for robing, hyjacking, possible escape to newyork…he wanted to do mayhen and be exempt, probably though the’d brag at some point laugh

    Marina is less of a block head than the Aquarian norm. won’t go down w/ the ship of false belief, or choose sides that won’t suit her adancement, merc/cap …the site may sour not soar

  48. on a happier note,
    my best soul-mate friend of all time (haha)
    has his sun in leo, moon in aquarius.
    While i have sun in aquarius moon in leo,
    talk about yin and yang mix of energies,
    while we both have sun and moon square pluto, both 7-9 degrees orb ;P

  49. “astrology isnt made to point fingers,…” The thought that astrology ‘is made’ is quite dumbfounding to me. Reading isn’t writing, Simon.

  50. I appreciate that you’ve allowed for a higher percentage of female psychopaths than are usually acknowledged. Both male and female do all kinds of damage to others. But females have more tools specifically seduction and tears. They can see right to your darkest fears and exploit them especially men’s emotional weaknesses. I know of several female psychopaths who retain an entourage of eternally single men ready to jump at their slightest commands. Often they marry the nicest guys and slowly castrate them, abusing them with their tantrums and “friends” (servants).

  51. I’ve met my fair share of algorab libras, one with moon and mercury counjunct algorab, another with sun conjunct, and a third with sun 10 degrees conjunct corvus star (cant remember its name)
    Must be my 10 degrees gemini ascendant attracting, I wouldn’t call them psychopaths, just people, but the biggest frustration is of course a variation of the truth when it suits them…
    This is totally written by a pluto in virgo person, hehe, yes, Im talking to you Marina ;P
    Needing to compartmentalize everything and put things into boxes (although I hate that term too)
    And creating a rigid system and such, a lot of pluto in virgo are fanatical about this, allowing little expression and freedom of different manifestations..
    But the pluto in scorpio generation welcomes it, I see the drama of life like a tragic greek tragedy that we can’t escape, without pointing fingers at people.
    And I have also come in contact with a venus in algol woman, who has her shadier sides, but she is still human,
    and the pluto in scorpio generation accepts the so called flaws as what makes us who we are, although we have to battle ourselves and stop hiding from the truth..
    A lot of intense emotional encounters,
    but this article is a bit misleading still..

  52. and the pluto in scorpio generation are also pacifists, we deal with things psychologically and emotionally, and challenge each other, to get to the bottom of things,
    so I wouldnt worry about the future and the video games and such.. although GTA V has me a bit concerned,
    when I went to high school (or whatever its called)
    there were 200 students the same age, and there was only one episode of violence I heard of, and everybody knew about it.. And was disgusted with what had happened..
    I never heard much about violence in the college kinda thing either, norwegian mandatory education is very stretched out..
    So these kinda articles does not please the pluto in scorpio generation, and we need to purify the hurt of others, not to hide our heads in the sand..

  53. If you would know astrology, then you must
    know about the Casey Anthony case of 2 yrs.
    ago in America.
    Casey Anthony, babykiller was a walking
    advertisement for the validity of Astrology.
    She got off scott-free for the murder of her
    child, and everyone knows she did it!
    She was born on March 19, 1986 in Warren O.H.
    at 3:10pm.
    Not only does Astrology peg her, so does
    numerology, and ever other psychic typeology
    system in existence. I’ve never seen a person
    that so completely proves the validity of
    Astrology. You should look into it.

  54. Good article.Love it. I have sun/moon trine Uranus, and Pluto aspecting several personal planets. This made me a sociopath. Hope i can read more good research articles like this

    1. A true sociopath does recognize himself or herself as such. You gave very little information about your chart so we can not even start guessing your astrological tendencies for psychopathology. Uranus trine Sun/Moon is a positive aspect. I have all three involved in a Star of David and they are the nicest aspects in my chart. As to Pluto you say nothing about aspects, houses, rulerships, etc. So that information is worth as much as what you paid for. And, yes, I agree with you that the work you are commenting is a good piece of research. The best I have read about the astrology of psychopathology. For your information I was a victim of a psychiatrist certified psychopath for more than 20 years who had the Moon conjunct Saturn, opposite both Pluto & Uranus. All in very close orbits. The dispositor of the Moon, Neptune, in the first house (very close to the Asc) square the ruler of that Asc. Even the otherwise great blesser, Jupiter, is in a T-square with the Moon, Pluto/Uranus opposition. If this was not the chart of a psychopath then astrology would have not validity.

  55. loved the research. i myself am a scociopath and looking for information. i would love to have a chart done.
    born 10/26/1982 7:33pm tracy ca. male. i have a big heart and truly like to make people happy as long as im happy to. but i feel no remorse for my wrongs.

    1. @ chris, if you are a sociopath, no you DON’T have a big heart..you have a big love for yourself..a true heart beats for others, not just yourself and your own needs as you manipulate and destroy all who fall into your web of lies…sociopaths are life destroyers and demons who walk among us..period..

    2. I’d like to point out, @T, that there are many sociopaths that are able to treat people fine. That reply was hostile to no purpose and out of line.

  56. Gosh, how interesting. I’ll bookmark this for future reference. Thanks for all the research you’ve done on this. I’ve saved charts of a few people I’ve come across who expressed strongly psychopathic traits… Off to compare notes now!

  57. I found your research very interesting. I’ve had about a dozen Scorpios in my life (father, two aunts, mother-in-law), friends, bosses) and they all have the same nasty psycho traits, e.g. narcississism, lack of empathy, heartlessness, extreme and unrational jealousy and they are expert liers and manipulators. My father was a cold
    and detached Scorpio who had no love for his wife or children and was only happy when he was in the limelight.
    He passed away 16 years ago; my mother-in-law is in a nursing home so I rarely see her, my family is estranged from my two aunts and I no longer have any Scorpio friends!

  58. I may have contacted you in the past, sorry if so, but I had a relationship with a psychopath and just a quick look gave
    lilith 13 aq 49 Venus mercury midpoint 14 aq 08
    Ceres 14 aq
    unaspected Sun
    Mercury 7 aq sextile Eris 7 ar
    Algol ( 26TAU10) conjunct Mars 27 sc 19
    Chart
    10 Jan 1956 10:30 am Brisbane Australia

  59. Well, why the focus only mostly on fixed stars?

    I have Sun Ascab conjunction, Lilith conjunct Aries Rising and Lesath conjunct Mercury and Neptune, Eris square Venus and I am not an evil person I think.

    I dont like taking advantage of the weaker or anything. I also have Moon conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn.

    Sometimes I feel sad, but I am sensitive and I dont like using people for my advantage, I prefer being independent. So how do you explain this?

    1. I will need to expand on this article. But the short answer is the “killing points are the healing points”. There is magic and there is sorcery. A knife in the hands of a surgeon is a life saver. You might be someone who attracts psychopath types so that you can show them how NOT to behave. So an enlightened person with these stars can be an exorcist.

  60. Most of the psychopath traits listed fit geminis negative side, but all you really need to do is get to know one to realize that they’re crazy

  61. I failed to upload the chart into a comment box so, for research purposes here is the chart of Psychopath C.

    July 18, 1965 at 11:30AM, AWST(-8), Place 11N52/123E55

    Ascendent: 22LIB00
    House 2: 21SCOR55
    House 3: 21SAG55
    IC: 20CAP29
    House 5: 20AQU48
    House 6: 21PIS56

    Sun: 25CANc17
    Moon: 13PISC53
    Mercury: 22LEO04
    Venus: 20LEO56
    Mars: 10LIB06
    Júpiter: 19GEM39
    Saturn: 16PISC53
    Uranus: 12VIRG13
    Neptune: 17SCOR16 R
    Pluto: 14VIRG24
    NNode: 12GEM55

  62. brilliant work you have done and then reflected upon. I have followed your posts along with only a few others that I felt I could trust to decode my complex chart. please contact me to calm my wanton need for honesty and discretion.
    much love
    k

  63. Okay… Im pretty freaked. Fella I’ve been seeing on and off for 2 years, has what seems to amount to too many of these aspects.
    5/18/57 Pasadena, ca 11:30 pm
    What positve aspects would negate or lessen the negitive.

  64. I would ‘argue’ that some of these configurations might not a psychopath make, but a psychopath attract…ie, a shadow projection.

  65. Gaia – there is one screaming gap in astrology! That is, it is impossible to tell where a soul is on its evolutionary path and how, on the wheel of karma, it might be exercising a necessary deed! (assuming there is karma, a cycle and a soul!) it can perhaps only be seen in retrospect – two people may have the same aspects but only one is the murderer wile the other leads a quiet uneventful life! its impossible to see anything in isolation really – where you have a psychopath there may be a bigger family dynamic or a collective group dynamic – but why it impacts one person is difficult to see astrologically.

    Alas, the fixation on fixed stars excludes the most influential one from the pantheon – that is The Sun! The Sun is a star by all definitions and should not be excluded!

    Astrology is getting carried away with meaning – which is anyone’s interpretation really – and not actually observing the celestial bodies! The ancients knew no separate between astrology and astronomy – and we need to draw them back together. There are even astrologers who dismiss the sun as irrelevant – despite the fact it is a very active star affecting every aspect of life on earth! Absurd!!!

    1. Well looking at the fixed stars doesn’t really exclude the Sun at all, since all of them are pinned to the ecliptic which IS the Suns path. The Sun is also experienced through the seasons as the equinox and the solstice points which actually end up being the zodiac signs. The signs are not the constellations tho obviously. The Sun and our solar system is not floating in a void. Which reminds me, I forgot to sum up John lashes book “The Quest for the zodiac”. I have just finished it, but he basically says that using the fixed stars and constellations pulled us out of the Sol-centric (In his view ego-centric) thinking that humans are the pinnacle of creation. Drawing together Astronomy and Astrology is what I’m trying to do by using these fixed stars otherwise how are we going to do that using just the tropical zodiac.

      In the scheme of the chart tho, things become symbolic not nuts and bolts. So the Sun becomes just one of the satellites revolving us and the most important body is the one we are standing on, which is the earth!

  66. I could not agree more with uberqueenofwands on her observations. very wise. The sun is most important. I felt the need to add that comment even before my coffee /wake up period. Top notch!

  67. HI Marina – re Lash, does he mean Sol as in the old name for Saturn??

    Using the idea that ancient skies were different, Saturn was once revered as the “central ” planet/important body/star – our primordial parent “star” – “The Greeks originally called it the god “Helios”. The Romans called it “Sol”. These familiar figures have a long history, and the more one learns about their links to the earlier cultures, the more a mystery of origins comes into focus. Long before Greek and Roman times, the Egyptians worshipped the luminary Atum or Ra, just as the Sumerians honored Utu and the Babylonians the god Shamash. Astronomers and priests celebrated this light of heaven as the “Universal Monarch,” the “father” of civilization and the celestial prototype of kings.

    There is no mystery as to the present astronomical associations of these figures. But more archaic traditions, coming from many and diverse cultures, identify the great “sun” gods with the motionless center of heaven, the celestial pole. They speak of a primeval sun, an exemplary or “best” sun, ruling before the present sun. The god’s station was the summit of the world axis, from which he ultimately fell in a heaven-altering catastrophe. Perhaps the best known story is the Greek account of Kronos, founder of the Golden Age, eventually driven from his seat at the top of the world by his son Zeus.

    oday we take for granted that the ancient words we translate as “helios” and “sol” originated as references to the Sun that illuminates our every day. In many languages the words for this axial figure did indeed become the words for the Sun. But the later identity could not obscure the more archaic idea–of a former, stationary light at the pole, whose every feature defies any identification with the Sun in our sky today… early astronomical traditions identify the “primeval sun” as the planet Saturn, the distant planet which the alchemists called the “best sun” and which the Babylonians, the founders of astronomy, identified as the exemplary light of heaven, the “sun”-god Shamash. (“Shamash is the planet Saturn”, the astronomical texts say.) In archaic copies of Plato’s Timaeus, the word for the planet Saturn is Helios, the “sun” god. Popular Greek traditions identified Saturn as Kronos, alter ego of Helios, and Kronos is said to have ruled “over the pole”. But only a handful of scholars have bothered to trace the parallel referents in other cultures, or to address the unanswered questions.

    read more on https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch/040923saturn-ancient.htm

    I think Saturn would have been the progenitor – ancient paternal god but the child has to individuate and this is where the sun comes in???

    We have to see the Sun as an active star – after all it influences all life on the planet by virtue of light! The nature of the light as an electromagnetic emanation affects DNA (which literally grabs light), growth, blood, etc etc There’s even a correlation between sunspots and heart attacks! Maybe one between psychopaths too?!

  68. Thank you Marina. Amazing work and thorough explanation. You disembowel astrology and teach it as if was easy to understand. You have a gift. Rock on.

  69. Marina, what do you do if you come across a psychopath chart during a reading for a client? Must be awkward, but do you in fact tell some people they need to get psychological help, or that they are just plain old evil?

    1. If they have come for a reading, then chances are the client is into self work which means they wouldn’t be a psychopath! I don’t think I would attract psycho clients, but I do think I attract those who have been abused by them. The charts looks very similar. Psycho looking charts may well be prime targets for possession because the charts are a powerful instrument. In that case I would advise the client to keep as grounded as possible, work in a field where they could be themselves and express their creativity. Self awareness is the key and wisdom is power. Psychological help would be pointless to a real psychopath. I don’t believe that a chart can really ever show a true psychopath, but I believe it can show what karmic contracts you have agreed to which could in fact be false contracts. You then grow up thinking you did something dreadful so now you deserve to be abused by psychopaths or are doomed to having terrible relationships.

    2. Hello, and thanks for this valuable information. I have a question and a comment. First the question, in your opinion what is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath? …and I was surprised to not find Sedna in your list of planets/objects. If you ever live through a Sedna transit, she’ll make all your charts from then on. I include Sedna in every chart I do, even horary.
      thanks again..

  70. I am a medium, and am just ending a 22 year marriage to a psychopath, he is using my mediumship to take custody of my son.
    He falsified criminal charges on me when I told him, I had talked to a deputies wife, and if the abuse did not stop I was taking my son and leaving state. Next thing I know I am in jail, he has my son, and custody of my home, I was left with clothes on my back and nothing else.
    I am not fighting him for custody, and have had to defend my abilities in court.
    Where do we go to have a chart reading done by you.
    I think he is polluted with attachments, and his aunt was a black witch, who is deceased.
    He did the usual NPD stuff isolation from family, lies, smear campaigns, not allowed to work or have money.
    He also has stage iv cancer which made him even more abusive, and unpredictable.
    He told me he was angry I am living and he is dying.
    I would love to see what my chart says about this.

  71. In answer to Steve. Yes Sedna probably should be included, I wrote this article before I did any research on Sedna though. I have written about Sedna here SEDNA. Sedna moves so slow though and I find dealing with Eris is quite enough!

  72. I find it very interesting that you combine Astrology and Psychology. Im very interested in your work, and did’nt read something like that before. Could you create my birth chart too? Im very curious about the results
    Date of Birth: 21. 11. 1990
    Time: 06: 10 a.m.
    Place: Adana (Kadirli) / Turkey

    I would be very happy to hear from you, and good luck for your current ongoing works

  73. Does Saturn in the 12th House always indicate necrophilia or obsession with corpses and cemeteries?

    What would be your opinion of Saturn in Scorpio in the 12th house?

  74. “These people have no real creativity, so tend to plagiarize; they don’t know who they are so the only way they can gain potency in their lives is by sucking the life (sometimes literally), money or ideas out of someone else.”

    That seems harsh considering I can name famous people who have these tendencies that I don’t see as psychopathic beings but more like unoriginal and as a musician I’m inclined to being more careful about what I make from seeing people like that, but there really is no such thing as originality and that’s the bottom line. And every human beings motivation is survival if you think about it. Most human beings usually care about not only their own survival but the survival of their loved ones as well. I’ve seen really selfish people and I’ve known really selfish people and I’ve had experiences for years where I was convinced life is made up of people with many of these “psychopathic” tendencies that I’ve always perceived as just being typical human behavior as generalized as it seems. (Not killers and rapists, I’m talking about the manipulative stuff.) You have to be careful about who you surround yourself with; I know it’s a cliche but it’s true. Maybe my Virgo ascendant makes me more compassionate and willing to accept some sort of “poor lost soul” projections on people without needing to make it so that everyone is either good or bad. I’m pretty practical and have always been able to take the cold, harsh realities of life that someone can be extremely selfish but still be nice or someone can be selfish and rude and have a bunch of those qualities listed but good to whoever they feel like. It’s complex stuff.

    1. Hi, you bring up some valid and interesting points. I studied mental illness through an astrological lens for a few years, being involved with someone who has borderline personality disorder. Its called borderline because it introduces the neurotic/psychotic continuum of perceived reality. So psychopath would be someone who really is unaware of what theyre doin.

      as for markers in the natal chart, there
      are many. Too many of them and youve got problems that are beyond what an astrologer can fix. steven

  75. Hi Marina & Happy New Year!
    Fascinating article as usual!

    Quick question. What orb would you give Acrab with sun/moon?

    Thanks and all the best for 2016!
    Great job BTW with the 2016 horoscopes! I have totally enjoyed reading them.

  76. I have been investigating my sister,s chart. I have stayed away from her for years. She is the trustee of my mother’s multimillion dollar trust of which I am one of the beneficiaries. I have received nothing and her lawyer has sent me a release to remove myself as one of the beneficiaries. She has, over the years, made several devastating attacks against me. Her Pluto in Leo is on her ascendant vert tightly conjunction black moon Lilith and Atropos exactly opposite the star Geidi. With the full moon tonight at 3 Leo I think she will be brought down. I have reported her to an investigative authority regarding her thefts of money from my mother’s trust earlier this week. Reading and researching on this wonderful website has indeed helped me and I think this may be her last attack.

  77. Wow- what a fascinating article!

    My ex boyfriend (well all of them) are psychopaths. I’ve been very soft and naive in the past, maybe that’s why I stuck with them and let myself get abused.

    Could you check if my ex has any stars that would indicate that’s he’s a psychopath, please? His date of birth: 5th April, 1969, Lisbon, Portugal (I don’t know what time he was born). He’s also a lot older than me, so I suppose you could say that he preyed on a young girl. I met him when I was 21, I’m now 27. I know that his father was abusive and schizophrenic. His mother also had schizophrenia, so I guess that it runs in the family!

    I would really appreciate it if you could tell me the stars. If there are no indications with the stars, then I guess he is just built wrong and chose evil (he has no empathy or remove). He’s had me in tears for hours, in the past.

    1. Hi Katie
      You have my sympathies- my ex was born late on 4/4/69- Aries sun with scorpio moon- the lady he married after me and since divorced compared notes and she says he’s a narcissist- yes like a psycho- extremely good looking and charming in the surface and in public but awful and scary at home- violent, threatened to bury her under the patio – but somehow everyone still thinks he’s amazing- they are all spell bound. Best thing you can do is be grateful you are out of that situation- it’s confusing and disturbing at best – don’t dwell on it..

  78. Wow that was fascinating! I must have alot of victim to these predators stars. I dont let the victimization go on long, and I get attacked pretty brutally when I defend myself. I would love a detailed chart reading, how much are they? Maybe I can avoid another epic war go around with the right heads up Marina!

  79. I have moon trine Uranus Neptune Lilith, sun trine Pluto, algorab ascendant, sirian sun and mc and mars conjunct Venus near Regulus, I’m very conscious though. Almost thought I was a psychopath

  80. My ex boyfriend , born on the 10th of may 1995 at 13:05 in craiova romania…may have some of these aspectes.. .he seemed to have infernal struggles…and with time became cold and aloof. Also he has many aspects of a cheater….like uranus in 7th house aquarious, opposing a leo mars in 1st house. An aries venus square neptune and so on…above 10 crazy aspects in jur chart….there is prospect of getting back togheder, but i would like for someone to take a look and if i order a chart reading…they will put things nicely. So i would apreciate it of someone could have me an honest opinion!!…thank you guys in advance

  81. My ex had hard paychopsycholol jk aint word in dictionary. He is dramatic hard venus/nep aspects promoting his histrionic like acts. Perfectl and comorbid of borderline personality hard aspect on Neptune/Pluto

  82. I have Dark Moon Lilith (Waldemath) at 29 degrees of Aquarius, conjunct Moon and opposing a Virgo Pluto conjunct a Leo ascendant. I had not studied Eris. Thank you for mentioning that star.

  83. So spot on. The worst Psychopath that I’ve known in this lifetime was a Scorpio sun and he had Moon opposite Sun, Moon opposite Saturn and Venus conjunct Mars. He would only do whatever he felt like. Used people like tissues.

  84. I read online a short excerpt on a discussion thread of how they were researching the south node and have planets conjunct. They ( I do not know if they are male/female) found in their research that people with this type of placement in their charts denoted someone who was sexually abused or suffered some kind of abuse OR were manipulative and abusive themselves in this lifetime.

    I recently met someone who has Mars conjunct South Node with Mars being out of bounds. (I have out of bounds planets and I do feel they act differently). He has Neptune in the first house in Scorpio no less. Mars / Venus / Mercury in Capricorn and SN. Very earthy sensuality. I’m but a novice learning astrology however because of my psychic abilities I immediately sensed his subtle manipulative emotional behavior. He agitates the heck out of my Aries moon.

    My point is, I wonder if the SN conjunct Mars also adds further credence to someones manipulative behavior.

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