Pluto/Ascendant Aspects

Pluto on the ascendant or within 5 – 10 degrees of an angle brings the god of the underworld’s energies out very strongly in the individual’s lives. The Ascendant/Descendant axis is one of relationship and Pluto rules taboo sex, so this combination is bound to breed love lives that feature anything from; fierce loyalty, deep love, protection, jealousy, secret affairs, possession, obsession, fetishes, bondage, S & M to the very worst abuse, violence, rape and crimes of passion. It rarely manifests as far as the end of that list thankfully.

However Pluto’s life and loves are always going have a torturous feel about them, they wouldn’t feel alive if they didn’t. They get a kick of reinventing and regenerating themselves with each affair.  “50 Shades Of Grey” aside, the subject will be fascinated by these kinds of relationships, the psychology of sex itself or the minds of very dark and twisted characters. I have since written this article “Twin Flames or Hell’s Fire” which will sometimes describe the hard aspect experience of these subjects. As someone with Pluto square my own ascendant it is certainly true for me.

Pluto Conjunct Ascendant

The subject will embody the raw, dark Pluto energy very physically. Sexuality will be in your face and hard to avoid. They will enjoy flaunting the taboo side of this placement and relish in playing the “Bad girl” or “Bad boy”. The Pluto stare can be unnerving and used as a means to control and dominate. Indeed those dark eyes burn so deep into their targets soul that one can feel quite violated by them.

Pluto conjunct AscendantPluto here can be too intense for some people to handle, so Pluto Ascendant may find that people have a love/hate relationship with them and that they are giving the cold shoulder after a certain amount of time. Of course Pluto is also very adept at deep freeze behaviour itself. Pluto demands so much attention that it can be very draining for anyone close to them. They can get the reputation of being the “Bunny Boiler” since they are the ultimate stalker and can obsess over someone through their tendency to become addicted to the sexual part of the relationship.

On the plus side these people are incredibly loyal and would die for those they love. They have the most dramatic and mesmerizing presence of all the planets rising and they are very, very hard to say no to. They do very well in politics and positions of power once they learn to lace their coercive tactics with a bit of charm.

Annise Parker (07’); American politician. One of the first openly gay mayors of a major US city. Isaac Mizrahi (09’); Flamboyant American fashion designer. Kurt Cobain (12’); American musician who suffered drug addiction, depression and eventual death through suspected suicide while under the influence of drugs aged 27. Jin Xing (13’); Trans-gender ballerina and choreographer. Her modern dance is “provocative”. Emperor Nero (18’); Controversial, extravagant and tyrannical ruler know for many murders including his mother and possibly his spouse while pregnant. Also: Richard Branson, Glenn Close, Peter Gabriel, Judy Garland, K. D Lang, Steve Martin, Jon Venables, Nancy Sinatra, Keanu Reeves, Justin Bieber, Bilawal Bhutto.

Pluto Sextile Or Trine Ascendant

I was thinking this aspect may be a Pluto-lite, but actually no. The intensity of the Pluto is still there but finds an outlet through artistic expression. This comes from the blossoming Venusian sextile and ripening Jupiter trine energy. Where these Pluto buds are blocked for any reason they can turn toxic and seething, resulting in violent tendencies. Like the conjunction, the usual sexual magnetism is there, but the darker, kinky side of their intimate nature is not apparent on the outside and partners are often shocked when these sugar-coated sweeties have a hot and spicy center.

The trine has a great capacity for churning up the treasures from deep within Pluto’s mine and creating great wealth. The subject can easily become a workaholic, pushing itself too far and burning itself out. Because Pluto is so resilient however more often than not they emerge, phoenix-like from the flames, bigger, stronger and more powerful than before. Since Pluto rules the realm of the afterlife these folk can tap into other dimensions giving them the gift of prophetic ability. They are able to access occult (hidden) knowledge, which is why they make great spies and hackers.

SEXTILES: Malcolm Young (01’): Guitarist of the heavy metal band AC/DC. Gustav Courbet (07’); French realist painter. “He depicted the harshness in life, and in so doing challenged contemporary academic ideas of art.” [1]. Shania Twain (11’); Canadian mega-selling queen of popular country music.

Aileen Wuornos (23’); American serial killer who claims to have murdered seven men in self-defense. Abused and raped as a child turned prostitute. Frida Khalo (29’); Mexican painter best known for her surreal and painfully graphic self-portraits and tumultuous relationship with fellow painter Diego Rivera. Also: Wreckless Eric, Silvio Berlusconi, Robbie Williams, Joseph Goebbels, Julie Andrews, Gwen Stefani, Errol Flynn, Harrison Ford.

TRINES: Sir George Wilkins (02’); Australian explorer who pioneered the use of the submarine for polar research. Nostradamus (09’); 16th-century French seer and apothecary whose predictions are still discussed today.

Arth Michel (09’); Belgian school teacher interested in black magic and astrology who raped, tortured and filmed male and female 12 year old twins and their younger sister with the permission of their parents!

Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis (24’); First lady of assassinated president JFK who’s bloodstain Chanel suit is so very iconic of Pluto. She went onto marry Greek shipping tycoon Aristotle Onassis.

Dave Gahan (24’); Lead singer of dark electronic band Depeche Mode. Dave is a recovering heroin addict and has had four brushes with death earning him the nickname “Cat”. One was a suicide attempt and the other his heart stopped for 2 minutes as a result of a “speedball “ overdose.

Clint Eastwood (27’); The archetypical brooding, strong but silent Plutonian outsider. Also; Rufus Wainwright, Serge Gainsbourg, Robert Redford, Margaret Thatcher, Joan Baez, Ian Richardson, Hayley Mills, Harry Secombe, Bruce Lee, Bob Monkhouse, Bob Geldof, Bettie Paige.

Pluto Square Or Opposite Ascendant

Taboo sex, death, stalkers and spies, yes they are all here as you would expect with the square pushing Pluto’s seething larva to the surface. Pluto is not embodied in the subject like the conjunction. Instead, it plays out very strongly in relationships. On the surface this person is nothing like the Pluto archetype, they may even look quite fluffy. It is only when they become sexually involved that their stalking, obsessive, compulsive side becomes apparent, but by then it is too late.

pluto trine ascendantTheir partner is shocked when they wake up and find a great ball and chain clamped to their ankle. When did that happen? It’s not that Pluto in hard aspect to the Ascendant is really that controlling, what has happened is somehow they have seduced their lover into following them so far down into their black velvet labyrinth that they simply cannot find their way out again.

In the process, they have become so enmeshed with their Pluto partner that severance would seem like a very painful and messy operation. This clamping can work both ways, the subject plays either Pluto or Persephone, for while Pluto squares/opposes the AC it also squares/conjuncts the DC. Sometimes they flip from one to the other in successive relationships, feeling bullied in one marriage only to divorce and go onto and play the tyrant in the next.

Taboo sex and fetishes seem to be a strong theme here and they may feel compelled to hide them or live a double life. If their sexual urges are suppressed then they can warp into violence or the rage can turn in on itself and result in mental illness. S & M may be a factor too. Hard aspects to Pluto sometimes feel like you have some massive karmic debt to pay off and that all relationships are “fated”.

SQUARES: George Blake (02’); Former British spy imprisoned for being a Russian double agent. He escaped prison in 1966 and fled to Russia where he still lives. He was Dutch born with a Jewish father and escaped the Nazi’s to live in the UK dressed as a Monk. Survivor!

Tracey Austin (16’); Former Number one Tennis champ turned commentator. Kristy McNichol (25’); American actress, retired after being diagnosed bi-polar. Came out as a lesbian after 20 years of living with her same-sex partner. Greta Scacchi (27’); American actress.

John Rechy (30’); American Author. Homosexual subject matter, work has been censored due to its sexual content. Also: Barbara Hutton, Billy Graham, Brad Pitt, Catherine Zeta-Jones, George III of UK, Guillaume Apollinaire, James Degorski, Margueritte Steinheil, Mark David Chapman, Mia Farrow, Steve Winwood, Depp/Paradis Davison, Wallis/Edward VIII Davison.

OPPOSITIONS: Liberace (10’); American pianist and singer. In the 1970’s was the highest paid entertainer in the world. His flamboyant image of excess gold and silver reflecting Pluto’s wealth of treasure. Liberace sued a newspaper for implying he was homosexual and did not admit to it all his life. Liberace had been HIV positive and symptomatic for years before his death but it was never made public.

Brenda Frazier (11’); Debutante and “poor little rich girl” who suffered tempestuous relationships, breakdowns, anorexia and bulimia. She felt victimized by the high life and died a hermit. Titanic hits Iceberg (29’); Symbolic of Pluto’s ice reclaiming the huge wealth and pulling it back down into the underworld.

Mark Quinn Denton; Rapist and robber who “tried to use his horoscope in defense for “inevitable actions,” His attorney said “It was the law of Karma. He had no control over his behavior.” Also: Andy Gibb, Antonio Banderas, Bill Hicks, Helen Keller, Jane Fonda, Paul Newman, Ronald Reagan, Tammy Wynette, Yehudi Menuhin. 


195 thoughts on “Pluto/Ascendant Aspects

  1. An ex of mine has this lovely little thingy, Pluto opposite Ascendant. Oh, the nice, funny, romantic, sweet Sag he was *before* the relationship got sexual; oh, the horror he slowly became after that! It was all sexual repression/jealousy/lies/manipulation, and of course it ended badly (when Pluto crossed *my* DC…)! On the surface a ‘cool, nice guy’; but when feelings started to become painfully deep, it was all aggression (verbally) and coldness. He still goes on in this cycle of victim/tyrant sometimes playing it himself, sometimes having his girlfriends act it out for him.
    As I see it now, I never really felt I knew who this person was after we became sexually involved. I could never really trust him, really relax with him, because all of what you describe was seething underneath, not inspiring that much confidence; trying to talk openly ended in epic fail quite a few times.
    I do have Pluto opposite Sun, mind you, which is why I found him attractive in the first place, we did have a lot in common; he would find me aggressive and cold when I was hurt, a very painful vicious circle. And, in all honesty, as much as I was mad at him, I can’t ‘blame’ the guy.
    Pluto’s obsessions do to us what the Ring did to Gollum: it was a ‘normal’ human being that, facing something overwhemingly powerful, just became a crowling-on-all-fours slimy …whatever-you-wanna-call-it, losing everything in pursuit of its ‘prrrrrrecious’. It really breaks my heart to see people turn into ashes never to rise again, it’s such a tricky thing with Pluto, you might never become the phoenix; it is a very fine line between being left scarred forever and actually letting yourself transform and regenerate. Hence my respect for this energy, it’s no toy to fool around with.
    In this kind of relationships the thing is, that maybe ultimately drives people apart, the paths we choose in trying to deal with all these fiercely intense emotions are very, very different.
    Right…enough of ‘shedding light to Pluto’s pit’ for today. Thanks for the post Marina, once again, spot on!

    1. Thanks HD, for your insight too. I’ve Pluto opposite Sun & Venus, sextile Moon, quincunx Mars…and, what do you know, square my ascendant by 9 degrees. To which I wouldn’t normally put much stress on, but there it is! And it’s in my 4th natally, so it’s ‘down there’ anyway, not much chance of taking things lightly. Add to that current transits to just about anything in my chart, and I think you get the idea.
      As you said, I don’t see it as darkness, it’s just an energy I feel very deeply, as something familiar to me. It’s not easy, and I definitely I freak out with all this intensity on bad days. But, to repeat myself, I have a lot of respect for it.

    2. hey,

      i live with my interesting moon-uranus-pluto-conjunction opposite lilith.
      and second stellium is venus-mars-mc-jupiter-sun (a few degress apart in the same sign).
      when pluto started to square the second stellium and travelled over my ac, that was hard stuff.
      interestingly, when pluto squared my moon-pluto-uranus that was not bad time, but i started to meet lot more deep-plutonian people, but also the ones, that have pluto integrated well.
      as with your planets in the fourth house, my moon-pluto-uranus is in 12 and also not easy to see whats really going on. but, as i survived pluto opposite venus, opposite mars, squaring ac and transiting ic (almost) in a few month, pluto will start to trine my moon-stellium. and i am sure, i will get a lot more understanding of this troumendous energy which rules my life that much.

      love and laughter to all of you.

    3. Wow Angelika, Moon-Uranus-Pluto and tr. Pluto opposite Venus-Mars AND transiting the angles, I mean, that’s a lot of stuff! Well done, survivor! 🙂
      I think what you’re saying is key, ‘have Pluto integrated well’, I also slowly come across more and more people that have this. Hey, maybe it’s because I’m going through *those* transits as well, and it might even mean that I’ve started integrating it a bit better too. Hopefully…
      Thanks for the post, love and laughter to you too! 🙂

    4. survivor, as you say. the last t-square with uranus-pluto-mars was exact on my ac-mc(conjunct mars)-dc
      uranus con. dc square mars/mc
      pluto opposite mars/mc square ac/dc
      mars square mars/mc opposite dc.
      marina posted to the t-square and i left a reply because of that upcoming transit.
      i needed to beg jamie/marina to delete it, because i felt i should not get any attention – other way i would not survive. interestingly, i had on that day 3 possible deadly car-accidents. i choosed life and saw my reactions in slow-motion. scary.
      and i cant tell how much else was going on in my business and privat relations. (the 2 or 3 left, 😉 since this pluto-uranus-fucking-transit started to clean my everything!)
      i had saturn square sun at the same time too.
      but since saturn moved into scorpio, and stoped squaring my stellium, its lot better, even i feel his impact deeply because saturn just moved into my second house and i need to run every day for the money to find something to eat.
      but the suicidal thoughts and the depression is lot better!
      you see, i am laughing loud about all that s going on and i know, nothing really matters – just take it as it is.

      take care!
      wish you much love.

    5. Hey Kacey,
      Thanks for the sharing in your post. It is fascinating how you see the aspects play out in your life and in the one particular relationship that you mention.
      I have Pluto opposite Sun too. And square Saturn. I need to spend some time reflecting on how these previously very difficult aspects have evolved…

      Does anyone have the experience of Pluto transit conjunct Venus? Have that coming up. I did have Pluto transit conjunct the NN. That was life changing in a very positive way!


    6. Hey Lenore, thanks for the post!
      Well, it’s actually empowering to see what I’ve done with these aspects so far, and try and move creatively with them. That’s another thing I’m grateful for, I have more clarity about my motives now and I can start working with dropping my own masks, not to mention choose to be involved in happier relationships! And I ‘keep walking’, of course. 🙂
      Take care!

  2. I have Asc/Virgo conjunct Pluto/Leo (House XII). Asc sextile Moon/Cancer and sextile
    Neptun/Saturn/Sun in Scorpio. I don´t feel so much the dark side, but the more I see the dark side.

  3. Say, Marina!

    I don´t have Pluto/Asc. Though, Pluto right now is about to cross the Dsc. and I don´t know if -by transit- would act they way it does when it is natal?

    And how do quincuxes workout? Alonso has a quincux right there. Oh! Alonso is my son.

    Thankyou very much, as always!


    1. Hey, Rocio, How are you doing? I read your post on another thread re: energy, and I agree. Thanks for the reminder 🙂

      Here is my understanding of quincunx: something that needs to be adjusted in this destiny/ lifetime, depending on the planets involved. I’ve also read the terms riddle and paradox in relationship to this aspect as well. My understanding is that it is a weaker aspect than the others such as conjuncts and squares.

      Thought I’d share a little of my ( very little) astro knowledge with you ;_)

    2. Hey HD!

      Thankyou very much. I was told by Tarot Arch. that I should observe Alonso, quietly, lovingly, to understand him in a very deep way.

      How is ThG Eve going on up there?




  4. Hey Marina, thanks for the great post (but then, they’re all great :-))

    I have Pluto Trine ASC (within one degree). Pluto in 9th in Leo; ASC in Sag. I loved this. How liberating.

    Pluto also trines my NN (within one degree), as my NN is conjunct my ASC within two degrees.

    Other Pluto aspects: Pluto exact degree Sextile Neptune (yazoo!!); exact degree semi-sextile sun; semi-sextile Uranus (with 2 degrees)

    Yeah, I know sextiles/conjuncts,etc. have a wider orb (am I using the correct term?) with planets as opposed to fixed stars; what I’m fascinated with is this: when I had a natal chart done several years ago, the astrologer told me the bane of all my “problems” in life was that I had an unaspected Pluto, without bothering to tell me of any of the above aspects. Now, reading your site and doing my own study has revealed that it just ain’t so, which gives me tremendous insight into my own chart.

    There may be darkness but I don’t see it as darkness. I see it as what is. And I do have a five- planet stellium in the eighth house, so I know a thing or two about darkness 😉


  5. Pluto trine midheaven (exact by 1 minute) here… I’ve read a lot about this link, but some of the Pluto/ascendant link works for me too, especially the sugar plate thing haha

  6. My 9o Virgo Pluto might be in orb to my 13o Taurus Asc. My daughters probably would say that it was. XD

  7. I have Pluto conjunct ascendant.I do see some of the characteristics listed here.I am a private person & most comfortable out of the spotlight,yet,it seems I draw attention the more I try to stay away from it.The “gaze” it works both ways.I have had many people say it looks like I am looking straight through them.I wish I would not do that,cause I don’t even realise,this is what I am doing most of the time.On the other hand,I get comments from men about my eyes being “hypnotic,” so I’m not too sure how I feel about that one either.Men are very comfortable with me.They seem comfortable opening up,yet after a while,realise I know more about them,then they do me.I am very dedicated in any relationship I’m in.I give it my all,not a jealous or suspicious person.It’s just hard to trust another with my deepest secrets & weaknesses.When I look at my natal chart with Saturn,Chiron in Pisces of my 7th house,I wonder sometimes what kind of person I was in a previous lifetime.I can say I don’t regret most of my past relationships,yet if asked if I would ever go through any of them,again,my answer would be “NO!”

    1. You were a good person. You just choose to pay some karmic debt quicker. It some times takes many life times for a soul to evolve. Obviously you done this quicker. Its there error for not knowing what they want. Its easier to take it on the person then face-up to your on failings. Its why some men find it easier to blame.

  8. Oh wait!I was just looking over my natal chart.I have a Scorpio Moon,which is sextile my Ascendant.So,would this not be Pluto sextile my ascendant,too?It seems the more I learn about astrology,the more I need to learn,…about astrology 🙂

    1. Find pluto in your chart and go from there. Pluto is the ruler of your moon but it has its own place in the chart. It may be a sextile but not because you have a Scorpio moon. Pluto’s placement and aspects will tell more of the moon’s story – kind of completes the picture. Go to for your chart and it will give you an aspectarian – this will show you the aspects between planets. good luck

  9. hi jamie, hi marina,

    could you please ad a few sentences to pluto conjunct ac in davison-chart?

    greetings and thanks,


    1. My understanding is that even if this is from the 12th a forcefulness of personality will come through – and in the 1st, most certainly. I have this (from the 12th) and i can get pretty intense in a quiet way – especially with words (Virgo rising) and 8th House (Pluto ruled) Sun and Mercury.

      I don’t consider myself a seductress but then my Pluto is still in the 12th and I keep all of that under wraps.

  10. I’m Double Scorpio with Pluto in VIR in Xth (conj Uranus). It sextiles Neptune-ASC-Venus-Mercury (mutual reception, and Mercury is the almost singular dispositor of my chart). Pluto also trines my near-full Moon on my DSC in my VIIth house. Uranus also forms a double quintile (bi-quintile) with my ASC stellium and my CAP Saturn, which is in turn sesquiquadrate to Pluto.

  11. Pluto rules the realm of the afterlife… They are able to access occult (hidden) knowledge.

    Pluto is closely sextile my ascendant (1 degree). I’m a writer of fantasy-fiction. I’ve just published a novel about a man who travels back and forth from the afterlife, who finds a lost, ancient occult knowledge and uses it to help lost souls. 🙂
    I’d never looked into this aspect before, thinking it was somehow insignificant.

    1. Ow, some of my comment got erased in the ether. Not important but my Thank you! got lost so… Thank you! (again). That was fascinating

  12. This is going to come from way left. But what is it about strong plutos or plutonian influences. Kurk Cobain is/was hot so is/was Jackie. One was the epitome of bad boy the other of class and grace. Both had smouldering sexual appeal. To me any way.

    BTW this transiting Uranus opposite natal Pluto is kicking my ass. I’m over all the excitement in my life.

  13. Hi Marina, great article. Please share your data and sources for Jon Venables and Aileen Wuornos. Thanks,

  14. Cindy,I just look at a women and she exaggerate her female sexual appeal when I look intensley enough, I guess you have the same influence on men.
    I have pluto conjunct my leo acendant less than a half degree, so I guess we are alike.

  15. going through this transit on my ascendant now… my love life has been dead and I’ve been celibate for 3 years. My energy is a bit too intense for folks lately… I have no patience for facades. Deep anger and rage have surfaced… Right now it’s a 8 degree orb.. is it gonna get any spicier because this transit feels kinda dull??

  16. I am a Scorpio rising, Aries moon. My sun and Jupiter are in my 8th house. My moon is exactly opposite my Pluto. A guy who I had been seeing was an Aries ascendant, exactly conjunct my moon. His Pluto was exactly opposite my moon and exactly conjunct his descendant. My Pluto is conjunct his descendant. His Uranus was exactly conjunct my scorpio ascendant. He has Neptune in his 8th house, which is exactly opposite my 8th house sun. Luckily my sun is in Gemini so I hope that takes the edge off some of my intensity lol. Mutually obsessive was how this “relationship” carried on until I had enough of the drama. It was all too much Cathy and Heathcliff, and look how that all ended! For all the Pluto in my chart I actually disliked the drama. However that relationship had a completely regenerative effect upon me. I am very thankful for all the psycho-drama lessons it opened me up to. It was very dark in places. I somehow feel purified by the whole experience though. I am very glad of this article, and I have been waiting for it for ages. Great site Marina and Jamie. Thank you.

  17. I don’t know if this also applies, Marina, but I dated a guy whose Pluto was conjunct my Ascendant (it was in his 12th house and he was a Scorpio Sun). He had such a powerful effect on me like what you describe for Pluto conjunct Ascendant in the natal.

  18. In synastry,I have Pluto conjunct Ascendant with someone,too,as well as some other pluto-related aspects like pluto square venus,etc.He & I both agree that from the very first time we met,over 30yrs ago,it is classic deja vu.This is the one person that has been a very positive influence on me,unconditional love in every way.Yes,emotions can be very intense & overwhelming,yet we have managed to keep it healthy,even if it means taking a time out,from each other.I think it’s because we learned long ago about this “energy” between us that we had to work with it instead of letting it work against us.

  19. Just read the Pluto conjunct Asc out of curiosity…
    … the famous ‘piercing’ eyes?
    More of the hypnotic Mona Lisa sort, you know they don’t make that strong of an impression at first, in fact in everyday life unless you cornered said person. The kind of eyes that could come flashing at you in nightmares, those you never quite seem to be able to forget.

    Think Arcane-Kill-Bill-Kung-Fu technique making the most fragile of hearts implode at the worst of moments. At worst, of course…

  20. What about quincunx Marina? I’m not 100% sure of my ascendant but it’s probably within 10 degrees of a quincunx to Pluto and I have a hell of a piercing stare! When I was at primary school my headmaster made me face the wall during assembly because I was putting him off.

  21. “It is only when they become sexually involved that their stalking, obsessive, compulsive side becomes apparent, but by then its too late. Their partner is shocked when they wake up and find a great ball and chain clamped to their ankle. When did that happen? It’s not that Pluto in hard aspect to the Ascendant is really that controlling, what has happened is somehow they have seduced their lover into following them so far down into their black velvet labyrinth that they simply cannot find their way out again. In the process they have become so enmeshed with their Pluto partner that severance would seem like a very painful and messy operations. This clamping can work both ways, the subject plays either Pluto or Persephone, for while Pluto squares/opposes the AC it also squares/conjuncts the DC. Sometimes they flip from one to the other in successive relationships, feeling bullied in one marriage only to divorce and go onto and play the tyrant in the next.”

    Wow, is this coming from personal experience Marina? If so, my condolences to Jamie. Just joking, of course :-}

    Currently in society we are outraged when women are treated in this manner and trapped in an abusive relationship, but when such treatment is directed towards husbands, it is somehow okay. This is why I am an advocate for abused husbands as there is little awareness that they exist and little to no support for them, even in so-called advanced western countries that value equality.

    1. The quote above reminds me of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. I noticed that he’s one of the celebrities listed with a square to Pluto. Brad looks like a battered husband who’s aged about 30 yrs since they got together so he must be playing the Persephone part. He seems to have lost his identity & become Angie’s puppet. Angelina has moon conjunct eris conjunct mars. Oh that rage! And Mean (Black Moon) Lilith in the 8th square sun in gemini in the 11th. Her media manipulation has been well documented and some consider her a psychopath. There’s a Fist of God with Lilith apex which is very, very frightening!

      On another vein, …not sure where to find it on this site but if it hasn’t been covered, it would be great to get more info about sex addiction and how the obsession can fill a void in one’s life.

    2. For anyone who finds themselves in this kind of situation, they might want to research Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is one of the most overlooked-personality disorders today. These people’s desperate need for admiration and willingness to use and exploit others for personal gain can spell devastation for anyone who crosses their path. At their core they lack empathy, but this can be deceiving because their image is of utmost importance and they’re natural spin masters (like some describe Angelina Jolie to be). Some psychologists feel that attempting to change someone with this disorder is fruitless because these narcissists think that everyone else is the problem or they’ll pretend to acknoweledge a problem when cornered and then end up manipulating the system to their advantage. There’s a few books out there to help protect yourself if you’re in a relationship with someone with narcissistic personality disorder (not to be confused with regular narcissism which is normal and healthy to a certain extent).

    3. I’ve observed that people who appear to have narcissistic personality disorder also use emotional blackmail to get their way.

      Author Susan Forward conceived the acronym FOG, standing for Fear, Obligation, Guilt – feelings which often result from being exposed to emotional blackmail.

      Here is a website “Out of the Fog” that may help someone in this situation navigate their way out of the FOG in their own lives

    4. “It is only when they become sexually involved that their stalking, obsessive, compulsive side becomes apparent, but by then its too late. Their partner is shocked when they wake up and find a great ball and chain clamped to their ankle. When did that happen? It’s not that Pluto in hard aspect to the Ascendant is really that controlling, what has happened is somehow they have seduced their lover into following them so far down into their black velvet labyrinth that they simply cannot find their way out again. In the process they have become so enmeshed with their Pluto partner that severance would seem like a very painful and messy operations”

      I have to add Marina, that this behavior that you’ve described is very controlling and I’m not sure how you can see it as not being so?

    5. Of course it’s controlling! It’s Pluto 🙂 I have added italics to ” is really that controlling” since I want to question how much of Pluto’s control is actually Pluto. It takes two to tango after all. For example a very weak willed person may gravitate towards a strict Pluto partner because they find it hard to discipline themselves and actually need and are grateful for someone to put a leash on them occasionally.

    6. “It takes two to tango after all. For example a very weak willed person may gravitate towards a strict Pluto partner because they find it hard to discipline themselves and actually need and are grateful for someone to put a leash on them occasionally.”
      I can’t help but ask – is that your inspiration for this picture that you posted on Facebook and that you described as kinky? Just kidding of course!

      Also, I note that for this aspect, what you wrote

      “It is only when they become sexually involved that their stalking, obsessive, compulsive side becomes apparent, but by then its too late. Their partner is shocked when they wake up and find a great ball and chain clamped to their ankle. When did that happen?”

      …sounds more like a Lightening Struck Tower tarot moment than one needing or being grateful for someone to put a leash on them occasionally.

    7. Reminds me of this picture Marina posted on facebook recently about Pluto sextile Saturn…

    8. Are you Norman Bates’ mother revived?
      Just kidding…

    9. Of course I know this aspect well! I have it and I feel the dynamics all too strongly sometimes.. Awareness, awareness, awareness is the key. When one is younger there are more chances of this manifesting in a negative way, but I think like Saturn, Pluto ages well. I used to hate feeling so intensely, but it was great for art. Nowadays I think its perfect for seeing the potential for toxicity in other peoples relationships, which is why in my work as an astrologer I hope to illuminate the tendency for relationships to become very co-dependent, especially in the modern world.

      A lot of ADD relationships are misdiagnosed as being co-dependant says Gina Pera in her book “Is it It You, Me, or Adult A.D.D.? Stopping the Roller Coaster When Someone You Love Has Attention Deficit Disorder.” I think they still can be if one is someone who has ADD is doesn’t know it. They may be self medicating and then drawn into co-dependant relationships with other addicts. Then the negative sides of Pluto come out.

      The behaviour you described directed towards husbands is NEVER ok. Who ever said it was? I do have personal experience of this since two very close males in my life have had this happen to them. One from his Pluto squ AC ex who got him into herion and had him steal for her to get the money for said drug and the other who’s ex-wife was so controlling and jealous that she banned him from seeing any female friends and was constantly verbally abusive to him.

      People with this aspect have to try extra hard to avoid addictions in relationships so that they dont fall down Plutos pit of doom and never find their way back. Some can go visit, gain some experience and then resurface the wiser. Some women are rescued by the menopause, from being slaves to our hormones 😉

    10. Marina, I will share my own personal experience. From everything I’ve read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, my father fits the profile to a T. He’s a very self-centered, charismatic and cunning person and all of my friends growing up thought he was so great and wished they could have a dad like him. His image has always been all-important and manipulating and lying are first nature to him. It’s as if his every move and action is a chess game and he always uses strategy and his sharp analytical mind to read people to achieve his ends. It’s us, his family who bore the brunt of his abusive nature and saw his real side.

      My mother is now separated from him and it happened because he was enticed by the prospect of getting half of all the assets (incl payout of family home). His siblings tried to convince him not to leave but he boasted that he’d be back together in a year. However, the reconciliation never happened and my Dad turned mutual friends and family against my mother and reinvented himself as the victim using his shameless spin doctoring abilities. Although people with NPD don’t have the capacity for empathy which took time for me to see in my dad, he’s been very successful in portraying himself to others as a compassionate and caring person. I’ve read that with these people an emotional paradox exists whereby they have ‘learned the words but not the music’. I don’t have my dad’s birth time but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had Mercury on Sulaphat in constellation lyre, the little harp as you described it in your January “Alluring New Moon” article. I have a lifetime of experience observing my dad and a special radar for spotting potential NPD (male and female) which can take awhile to see and isn’t always apparent at first. So for people who become involved with someone with this red flag personality, I’d say that awareness, awareness, awareness is the key.

  22. This week I looked for an ex high school boyfriend on the ‘net, not because I wanted to find him again, heavens no! He was a creep, jerk, sociopath, criminal when I knew him way back when. I was young and stupid, sure my love would “cure” him, hahahahahaha!

    In looking for him, I just wanted to see if he had ever landed in jail and yes, he had. I found his photo and arrest record on a mugshots website and his offense was exposure of a sexual organ. Fittingly, for how he turned out, he has natal Pluto in 4th square ascendant by less than a degree.

  23. Hello there! 😀

    Marina and Jamie, you guys are… words cannot describe how OVERJOYED and GRATEFUL I am to you two for creating this website. It’s been months since I’ve started reading your website – time to say what I think of it.

    A background how I found you – I was looking for something connected with BML, and when I initially found it I thought ‘DEEEEEELIGHTFUL! FINALLY! Finally a decent website not only about BML but about fixed stars and asteroids as well!’ YAY!

    I’m posting this here as I had no idea where I could do it – sort of – officially, and because yeah… my dear God of the Underworld ^^

    Verily, your work here I admire and appreciate :] My sincere thanks and congrats to you two =)

  24. As in all Pluto influences, this cannot be used selfishly, but must be for the general good.

    Too bad 😉

    Thank You Darkstar!


    Relevant natal data:
    Pluto Trine Ascendant Aspect (orb 1deg);
    Sun in Scorpio;
    Juno in Scorpio;
    Ceres in Scorpio;
    Lilith in Scorpio.

  25. Dear Marina and all Darkstar fans,
    I’m Scorpio with ascendant in Capricorn and Moon in Aries.
    I have Pluto (at 22° of Libra) conjuntion with my Midheaven in Libra and my Sun in Scopio (at 00’18°). Also, I have my Lilith (Black Moon Lilith) at 22° Libra conjuction with Pluto (and I don’t know if we should consider the conjunction with MC too, since both are points and there’s no planet involved).
    Well, completing my really dark natal chart, all these aspects are located in the 10th house, making opposition to my Moon in the 4th. By the way, my Saturn is in Libra in the 9th house in conjuction with Jupiter (in Virgo).
    Considering your experience with dark aspects in astrology, what could you say about it? Have you already seen people with all these dark aspects combined? What can we expect?
    I know that my life was always full of dark subjects, sexual issues and power abuse matters, but I have survived and learned many things during this journey so far. The worst thing is that I always have the sensation
    of having these strong ups & downs as a inherent part of my life.
    Do you have a good example of someone who succeed in dealing with dark combinations like that? What have they done?

    Looking forward to hearing from you

  26. Dear Marina and all Darkstar fans,
    I’m Scorpio with ascendant in Capricorn and Moon in Aries.
    I have Pluto (at 22° of Libra) conjuntion with my Midheaven in Libra and my Sun in Scopio (at 00’18°). Also, I have my Lilith (Black Moon Lilith) at 22° Libra conjuction with Pluto (and I don’t know if we should consider the conjunction with MC too, since both are points and there’s no planet involved).
    Well, completing my really dark natal chart, all these aspects are located in the 10th house, making opposition to my Moon in the 4th. By the way, my Saturn is in Libra in the 9th house in conjuction with Jupiter (in Virgo).
    Considering your experience with dark aspects in astrology, what could you say about it? Have you already seen people with all these dark aspects combined? What can we expect?
    I know that my life was always full of dark subjects, sexual issues and power abuse matters, but I have survived and learned many things during this journey so far. The worst thing is that I always have the sensation
    of having these strong ups & downs as a inherent part of my life.
    Do you have a good example of someone who succeed in dealing with dark combinations like that? What have they done?

    Looking forward to hearing from you

  27. Hope I haven’t commented already. Anyway, I like what you said Marina, about Pluto aging well. Hopefully mine has (Pluto in Virgo widely conjunct my Virgo Ascendant from the 12th). In my late 20’s I read a book called “Love and Limerence” and immediately decided I wanted love, not lust. By that time, I was sick of all the drama and longing and wanted a loving, committed relationship with someone who shared my values and liked sex as much as I did. Right after that, I met my Scorpio husband who was very passionate but not overly obsessed with me, nor was I overly obsessed with him.

    Thankfully I never stalked anyone (except in my own mind), although I was stalked several times and had numerous close encounters (Pluto square Mars), starting when I was still just a very shy kid in elementary school.

    Admittedly, I was obsessed with my first love, a very traumatic experience that began when I was in my late teens and dragged on for years, changing my whole outlook on relationships; he haunted my dreams for decades – ouch! As a result, I became very ‘independent’ in my 20’s, mostly involved in non-committed relationships with an intense on-again, off-again theme.

    It’s not only the addictive quality of romantic relationships I learned to avoid as I got older, but also any relationship that had (or has) an unhealthy feeling, like someone wanting me to want to save them but them not really wanting to be saved. Unnecessary drama drains me. Life is challenging enough and there are people who really want and need help. That’s why I volunteer.

  28. WOW LB, if I didn’t know any better you could be my twin. LOL. I also had very similar experience. My first love still haunts my thoughts and he is always with me. He passed away when I was 23 in 1987. We always had this on and off relationship and then I got married to someone else and he died a year later. When I look back now, I think I was obsessed with him and he with me. I was also stalked by a few men and to this day I don’t know who they were. I would have roses left on my car, notes, even to the extent of someone keying my car.

    I have Pluto in Virgo in my 9th and Pluto squares my AS. I am a Scorpio Moon as well as my husband. We seem to have a Ying & Yang balance. We both can be a bit possessive at times. I have been thinking for a while that I should also volunteer, I am just confused as to what to do. Thanks for your insight.

  29. I have pluto conjunct ascendant in scorpio and I always feel it. I agree, that the main key to handling this is awareness and also channeling the powerful energy into some creative and professional pursuits. For me it is astrology and finance, banking. I have had very bumpy road regarding my relationships with other people. My presence is disturbing and many people are not ready for it. I have learned to switch it off when I feel it’s becoming unbearable for others. Thankfully, I have also strong uranian streak which helps me to open up and enjoy groups. I’m still learning how to cope with this, I try to avoid from manipulation, seduction games, brutal “right to the point” language (aries mercury opposition pluto)and many other negative plutonian manifestations. My pisces moon makes me more compassionate and tolerant. Regarding my appearance – people say that my eyes don’t move and don’t have any expression. Very often when I talk to someone I feel that weird perception sense- as if it doesn’t matter what I’m talking about, my eyes and look mesmerizes. I do get lot of attention from men, though. But those are mostly forbidden, sexual, kind of dirty and sultry attention that I get. Rarely a healthy interest and human understanding. but I do need to activate other more positive parts of my chart to draw more healthy relationships in my life.

  30. Just a question. My pluto is within 2 degrees of my ascendant, but it is in the 12th house. What difference does it make being a twelth house pluto as opposed first house?

    1. At only 2 degrees away from your actual ascendant, it is in fact still considered rising, astrologically speaking. In this position, it will be a very powerful and dominating part of your life and personal expression. There is an intensity to planets here that is specific to this position, and I recommend you take the time to understand it. (Planets within 4 degrees of the ascendant, in the twelfth, are considered to be within orb.) When you consider that planets just over the ascendant–dawn–, here in the twelfth house, have JUST risen on the horizon moving towards the Midheaven which represents 12 noon in the birth chart, it gives special weight to planets here. As far as understanding it, it’s best to reflect on the definition of pluto in the first, understanding it will have further weight due to its special ‘at dawn’ position. Also consider any aspects and relationships it has to other planets as this will color its expression and its role in your life significantly. Hope this helps.

    2. So i have venus and uranus conjunct at 4 degrees into asc. I always thought of these as my rising planets, but does this position mean that pluto is in fact my rising planet?

  31. Pluto positioned on the ascendant also gives dark green colour to eyes, so they are not necessarily dark/brown. Also in correlation to Pluto`s dualistic nature, the eyes of the subject can have other dominant shades…

    1. Newer thought of my blue/green eyes with Pluto conjunct
      my Ascendant in mind, but of course Asc is phycical appereance. Thanks for the info!

    2. Son, Ascendant 18 Scorpio, Pluto 16 Scorpio… deep sea, grey-blue eyes, like the ocean… mesmerizing. Mine are apple green (Pluto sextile Ascendant) , his father’s are dark brown.

    3. I have Pluto square ASC and green eyes like my mom and grandma, only darker green. Haven’t known Pluto could add depth to the colour, the things you learn! 🙂

  32. I have Pluto conjunct my ascendant,Pluto trine my sun,chart ruler in the 8th house & a Scorpio moon.Unfortunately I don’t have those dark good looks that’s typically associated with Pluto or Scorpio.I’m blonde,fair complexion & have cobalt blue or royal blue eyes.

    1. But I bet they still have a cutting, penetrating and mesmerising quality?! Those I know who have had a Pluto or Scorpionic influence on their appearance have all had eyes that pull you in have you cast under some kind of spell.

    2. No they really don’t have to be dark! My ex was a Scorpio Sun and AC and he had arresting turquoise eyes, rare for an Italian. I think I just wanted his genes because my daughter has inherited them.

    3. It is the eyes.Some people are drawn to them & others keep their distance because of them.If there was one thing I could change it would be to know when I’m giving somebody an inappropriate look.My ex-husband said it looked like I could throw daggers with my eyes with just one glance.Ironically,I’m drawn to people with the same kind of eyes,but it’s usually eyes that are so dark,they look black.

  33. Holy Smokes isn’t the word! Rx pluto asc & desc to neptune is one duality powerful force, it sneaks up and numbs ya-zombielike`shock’n’awe-kick in the butt

  34. thank you marina for your very interesting insight,

    being a scorpio (decan 3) myself, i intuitively give any pluto aspect a bit more consideration,

    i can relate to what you share about pluto trine ascendant, an aspect to be found in my natal chart with an orb of 1 degree.

    at first i also thought this aspect to be a “pluto-lite”, but after reading your article, i became more and more aware of its intensity,

    i won’t underestimate its effect any longer, especially when i think about the intense (plutonium) encounters in my life 😉

    kind regards,


  35. “It was the law of Karma. He had no control over his behavior.”

    this was the best part of the article. funny ish!!! more like Mercury than Pluto 😉

  36. I have Pluto in Scorpio in the first house conjunct my Libra Sun. Is there a big difference between a Pluto in the first house and a Pluto conjunct Ascendant?

    1. Yes, In your case there is a big difference with a Libra ASC but the underlying tones give you a good amount of charisma and possibly physical strength.

    1. The quintile is creative tension. It would strongly be influenced by other factors in the chart as always.

  37. Does the conjunction lead to (real or imagined) power struggles? I have the conjunction in 0 scorpio and got the short side of the stick with child abuse and rape. How ever it was the psychological power struggle that affected me the most. Even today I meet people who seem to think that I am engaging them in some kind of power struggle, even though I am not.

  38. This position is why I’m mostly a loner. All of my grief in life has been due to sexual relationships. And given my propensity to sexual addiction due to my mars/neptune square, Saturn in the 7th house, I’m convinced that all my sexual/romantic relationships are doomed to failure.

    1. Hi Brandon – having suffered a long Neptune transit opposing my entire stellium of 6 planets I have reached the conclusion that Neptune asks you to think a long way outside the box. You’re romantic/sexual relationships aren’t doomed to failure if you reframe what their “success” is meant to be! We tend to believe, culturally, that a romantic/sexual relationship must end in happily ever after. This is based on economics! The standard m/f sexual relation “has to” result in love aver after, a family int and a safe handover to posterity. Nuts!
      Neptune is so other worldly – in esoteric astrology its even considered to be outside our system yet still synthesises influences for us.
      Neptune requires us to be outside the frame, to break things down, be lost and then find the way out of the miasma. Its another invitation to mastery but with no clear guides. neptune is the planet of addiction, the planet of being a victim, a saviour… and above all, the planet of “glamour” – note how there is a glamour of suffering!
      Mars/ Neptune square is a position of surgery – bleeding/mysteries of the blood and therefore MAGNETISM – since this is the mysterious component of blood.
      Personally, I think where addiction is concerned, the person is stuck in a groove of searching for something profound which the addictive substance/sex whatever can never quite deliver… but we keep looking … and hoping. Then an insatiable appetite arises and you;re in the grip of a hungry ghost.
      Saturn in your 7th – the house of marriage and contractual partnerships … the house of open enemies too! Funny how marriage is all those things! Its a basic form of alchemy – The Work is done through A.N Other – or even the lack of A.N Other.
      So we have to decipher who/what A.N Other really is but how saturn (patriarch or even matriarch, law, teacher – may benefit or stand in the way.
      Over and above all this Mars/Neptune – the will or raw power is at war with the mystic and diffuse – the formless. What/who is the invisible enemy? What does it ask? Surrender of will and if the will cannot live with that now and again, does it force its hand? It’s a subtle S&M relationship with the self!

    2. I have this placement and it is very powerful. I don’t think you are ever “doomed” when you have this placement, instead you have the power to transform any situation, most likely by transforming yourself and you have a great personal power. It can be hard to handle this feeling of power, but with time and experience you’ll get there.

      I believe addictions are a way of searching something outside of yourself, when you really should be looking with in. My husband was a sexual addict and now works with other sexual addicts. The answer always lie in themselves, either in something they avoid (like self hatered) or a feeling of powerlessness. But you definitely have the power to become who ever you want to be. Adversity will make you stronger. It is hard work, but it is also worth it.

  39. The degree of Pluto on the AS is very revealing. When it is 0 it could be said to have absorbed all the experiences of the previous sign but is a novice of the next one. So Marina’s analogy of being so far down the path it can’t find its way back is a good one because if Pluto hasn’t been there before it is unlikely due to its wilful nature that it has left a trail of bread to find the path out of the forest! And then finds the forest full of monsters!
    The generation of those with Pluto in Libra also have Uranus in Libra – Facebook comes to mind! The relationship status is paramount to show and then it turns into false profiles, stalking and grooming etc etc Pluto wants control and obsession, Uranus wants out – all at the same time! Many have entered the charnel house of the cardinal square and are so bruised for the initiation now! Sone of the creatures in the wood were not beautiful maidens once the lifted skirts revealed hairy hooves and a vagina dentata!!!

  40. I have Pluto Opposite AS, pluto in my 7th house jupiter in scorpio 6th house and North node in scorpio what does it indicate with my Leo Sun.

  41. Don’t remember if I’ve commented this before but have to say, this Pluto square ASC description fits me to a T! I look quite innocent like a kitten with a ball of yarn – could be my Cancer Moon – but the image dissipates sooner or later when my mouth gets away from me; curse my Saggi ASC sometimes! Asteroid Xanthippe conj my Sun/Moon midpoint is very telling also… 😛

    As far as my relationship patterns go, been there, done most of that to varying degrees. I’ve had to accept that with this aspect, Saturn Gem in the 5th and Mars Aqua trine Uranus Libra I’m not be the best relationship material, not even close. Bums out my sunny Leo heart but past relationships with men betraying my trust and loyalty have made me very distrustful, though these subconscious Plutonian control issues must’ve had a hand in it too I suspect. Single gal ’til the end… *sigh* -_-

    P.S. Does anyone know, how or if the yesterday’s Pisces Solar Eclipse would affect a person if it’s in near exact opposition with natal Pluto 8th house and completes a Grand Cross (in mutable signs) with ASC/DC? I’ve been feeling out of sorts since yesterday and just this morning realised this cross thing. Feeling a slight sense of trepidation here 🙂

    1. How could it not have an effect? Especially with Pluto involved. This was a big deal – a final closing of big doors is the scoop – leaving a spiritual paradigm for a new start – Aries moon today – ready for the new challenge. with the finance houses and the IC involved – could it be issues of security? I can’t imagine you would not see something shifting. Wait for the April Lunar Eclipse for full disclosure and I am thinking that the Mercury shift to Aries on March 30th will bring clarity as well. Leaving the nebulous, spiritual way of knowing behind and getting a plan of action even.

  42. Interesting how certain topics get posted to long past their original publish date. Transit inspired? For the record – I have Pluto in Leo conjunct a Virgo ASC from the 12th with a 7 degree orb. I am sure people would say I can be intense, especially since the ASC ruler is in the 8th H and Pluto’s sign ruler(Sun)is there as well. So – both marriage houses, the 7th (partner) and what was created together (8th) had a very Plutonian vibe and yes, with such an early degree of Pluto, out of sign, I was extremely naive to the underworld aspects of this character and this type of reality. It was heavy, it was “down” in the dark musician’s parlance, which is a language that I learned to speak fluently. It was all too gritty for me and it lasted too long. I was the INNOCENT (Persephone?) needing to have a deeper experience but it nearly destroyed me in the end. The Pisces DESC and the squares to planets on the MC/IC axis played into this as well. Uber’s comment “neptune is the planet of addiction, the planet of being a victim, a saviour… and above all, the planet of “glamour” – note how there is a glamour of suffering!” yes – very descriptive of the Pisces DESC. I add that the glamour wanes first.

  43. My Ascendant progressed into Scorpio creating conjunction with my Pluto. Does this apply to my progression as well?

  44. I have to say, I have pluto conjunct asc in scorpio orb 3 degrees and none of the sexual perversion relates to me at all. I’ve seen this over and over and I really want to know why sexual perversion always comes up with this aspect. I feel like mars has to have something to do with it or else the pluto doesn’t get charged with ‘action’. Otherwise I would assume that all that perverse thinking stays within the individual, (1st being self identity and how the world views you) so it’s possible to say that the world would view the individual as a sexual being, when in reality they may not at all be. My mars is 35 degrees away from pluto in 11 libra (ruled by virgo).
    I know that when I was younger I was much more of an intense person and sexually open to exploration but still held back (sun in 12 libra).
    This though: “The Pluto stare can be unnerving and used as a means to control and dominate.” very true. I find that my pluto con. my asc. comes out more in terms of vision (aries, the head, first house, physical body) I can focus on a tiny detail from across the room like a hawk.

    1. Evelyn – it seems one could not be any more of an authority on the subject than Pluto in Scorpio conj ASC ! I find myself with this conjunction from the 12th to be very aware of others sexuality and ANY sexual energy coming toward me. But I could also assign some of that to a loaded 8th H. I just don’t think we can, as you say, piece meal the aspects and say “that’s it” because we have the rest of the chart and our social and cultural conditioning, but I guess we have to start somewhere. Sometimes these interpretations are way off base, somethimes they really hit a chord. Such a gamut of possibilities – and that is the art part of astrology.

    2. I will add again that I have a Virgo ASC and a Mars in Cap so that could be tamping things down a bit. In both Placidus and Whole signs the Pluto is in the 12th. I wonder if Pluto might be stronger if conj the ASC actually in the first house and also if having it be in the same sign might reinforce it a bit.

  45. I’m Pluto conjunct Asc, 1 degree in the 1st House (Libra Asc)… opposite Natal Moon in Taurus. Sol in Pisces. And, a bunch of other interesting Karmic positions that I won’t laboriously list here.

    This placement has been hard. It was hard before I was aware of it, and it’s hard now. But, I find that the remedy… is to OWN it. My whole life I wondered why people had this polar reaction toward me of both admiration and fascination, and repulsion and fear. This was readily apparent long before I was aware of Pluto Conj Asc. Which is funny, because I was into astrology for years before the importance was indicated to me.

    The largest thing I have gleaned from this, having just completed my Saturn Return, is that if I act with complete benevolence, people flee like the plague. This seems to be as a result of the inherent “vibe” others get around me. Whether I act with absolute generosity or not, they still suspect darkness. However, if I apply a little of that Plutonian fury every now and again, and act with authority… people collect to me like moth to a flame. People need things to pin their hopes and dreams to. They need to pin these archetypes upon others. And I find that I am a much larger target for this than most, by far. If I do not act in accordance with the energy my archetype is aligned, namely that of representing Pluto to the outward world, others seem to feel an incongruency with my true nature and therefore react negatively.

    Hence, I say to you Plutonian ambassadors… Do not live by the conventional wisdom of the times, this heavy handed “anger is bad, and those who express it are bad,” philosophy. Anger had its place long before American political correctness and mainstream psycho-babble. You are the Angel of Death. To deny your role is to deprive the world of its understanding and place. Maybe Satan didn’t want to be Satan, but without him, all existence is simply one long bow of praise. And what could Satan do but be himself? As is no different than you, Pluto Conj Asc. Be fearless. You are born to it.

    1. Pluto in Libra is very strategy aware so perhaps the trick is to be authentic rather than execute a strategy of behaviour? I agree with you that we have to get angry sometimes – its healthier than pretending not to be and then some other poor soul picks up the disowned energy and acts it out!

    2. look, we all have the propensity to kill ,if we allow ourselves to, to say just be yourself and don’t try to transmute it, sounds like the nutters in the nut house, glorifying cruelty, when we see what we are capable of , good and bad ,then that is having the balls to see ourselves as we really are, but to put it into action ,is psychopathic, The worst phrase in the world is ,mine is not to reason why ,mine is but to do or die, ,just following orders ,for g-ds sake don’t think for your self, just be a sheep and attack others out of gutlessness and project your own cowardly darkness onto others. . ofcurse get angry sometimes, but at other times, self control is admirable and essential for a civilized society, ISIS! Our brave boys, my ar–e

    3. Joshua,and by the way im sure both myself and uqw,have not called on anyone for protection, having had to strongly act in self defence for oneself and for others.

  46. UberQueen… My entire comment was a statement of authenticity, not some strategy for social coping.

    And that’s the point. To both of you. People need to stop trying to displace the warrior archetype. There are those who are born to this, and you repress them with ideologies that do not fit them, stemming from something you don’t understand, all because it makes YOU feel more comfortable. You fear the violence that ensues in real life, in nature. Nature itself is violent and will remorselessly destroy you. Can you reason with nature? Will you deny it’s supremacy? Can you deny it would NOT be supreme if not for it’s violent wonders? It is you that are dishonest with yourself and your feelings. Not I.

    How do you define “the good guy?” When dictators and REAL psychopaths come knocking down the door, who will fight them? Who will protect others? You? Doubtful. Gonna talk’em to death? Sacred fire, righteous anger… is something you piss on when it’s convenient, and cry out to for help when you know all else is lost.

    And yes, even with the capacity to kill. Close your eyes all you like, marginalize the very guardians you count on. But remember your words as you eat them someday.

    1. Joshua – Pluto – the mechanism through which the ego suffers intiatation to afford the exposure of the soul.
      “and you repress them with ideologies that do not fit them” – really?
      As a Mars Sun PLuto Regulus conjuNct native, and someone who has been in court for PHYSICALLY FIGHTING to protect her child, I’d think twice about making statements like that. You;re not the only warrior on the block.
      Why are you fighting with women on the internet when you should be out on the street or the frontline scrapping with your fists amongst your equals?
      Are you projecting cowardice?
      q. “How do you define “the good guy?” – a. I don’t . When you get a bit longer in the tooth you’ll see there is no good/bad guy. Everyone has both – the qualities show up in different ways at different times. But Libra likes a binary world.
      Eventually Pluto will take you into the weird differentials, Neptune will show the shades of grey, the warrior steps down into the underworld and finds its not just a place where swashbuckling wannabes triumph.
      Even Fred West felt remorse for the child whose mother he had murdered. So he murdered the child too “it would be too bad for the child to have to grow up without its mother”.
      So off you pop now, on your Plutonian quest. “Sacred fire, righteous anger… is something you piss on when it’s convenient, and cry out to for help when you know all else is lost.
      “And yes, even with the capacity to kill. Close your eyes all you like, marginalize the very guardians you count on. But remember your words as you eat them someday.”
      Lucky for me I don’t depend on “guardians” – so get off the keyboard, join the army and get real with the fantasies. Pluto is a test of strength and the soul’s ability to withstand being crushed. Not a Pitman’s course.

    2. “Hard aspects to Pluto sometimes feel like you have some massive karmic debt to pay off and that all relationships are “fated”.” And howdy. But now, I have declared the list checked off. As this is the apex of a double T square for me involving all angles, it has been a lifetime of work and so behind the scenes (12th H). God, I am tired !

    3. Joshua,your superficial comments,make me wonder if you’ve ever actually,stood up to psycopaths ,rather than spouting heresay nonsense.
      knowledge comes from more places than reading about it.

    4. the true warrier type is to fight disfunction in ourselves ,not justify it.

  47. great interpretation of this placement, Marina – I have it and I totally identify with these dynamics – my pluto in scorpio tightly conjuncts my ascendant in scorpio (3 degrees) and to make it even more intense I have Venus in the eight house squaring pluto. There is no middle ground. it either is or it isn’t. On a sexual level and most important one as this is how this placement truly manifest, it is all about depth, intensity and inner transformation this is why rarely will give in to casual/superficial affairs as there is no inner transformation. The all or nothing truly applies here…it is really easy to understand this dynamic when considering the archetypal qualities of Pluto. Pluto is evolutionary as it pierces through the veil of superficiality right to the core to purge all the falsities and rid the illusion that allows for transformation and authenticity. This can be a painful yet transcendental experience.

  48. Diana, your Venus Aspect makes your encounters “all or nothing.” I have Pluto (Rx) conjunct Asc 1 degree in the first house opposite my Moon. I’ve had hundreds of lovers. The sexual exploration in my case is quite different.

    1. Joshua, I cannot visualise this: “”Pluto conjunct Asc, 1 degree in the 1st House (Libra Asc)… opposite Natal Moon in Taurus”” >> I’m not comprehending Libra H1 existing opposite Taurus H7. Help me out here…

  49. I have a Libra asc, but my Pluto conjunction is First House in Scorpio. Pluto falling just below the asc, the opposition is slightly at an upward angle, my moon being about three degrees above my dsc, in Taurus.

    1. “I have a Libra asc, but my Pluto conjunction is First House in Scorpio“ vs`. I`m Pluto conjunct Asc, 1 degree in the 1st House (Libra Asc)… opposite Natal Moon in Taurus“`- Ah; I comprehend now; within orb. Thank you for elucidating. I love reading and re-reading your exhortations and explanations; very hard-hitting and painfully, honestly on-point – just the way I like it.(Our ilk is not satisfied unless and until we draw blood, yes? Killing falsehoods and and willful ignorance is quite a noble and worthy endeavour). Slay on.

    2. Joshua, killing falsehoods???,start with your self, you sound desperate to seem alluring,
      what a turn off.

  50. Yes my wording was perhaps not succinct. I appreciate your appreciation of my words. The point at hand, is that I have tried to act more in accordance with my Libran qualities. But it continually pulls karmic energy that is attributed to Pluto, affecting how people view me whether I like it or not. And learning to be authentic with Pluto as my projection to the outside world (it forces others to see you this way no matter how you act) has been a trying experience. One that requires others being very unhappy with you.

    Especially with such a tight conjunction, as well as my Pluto being retrograde. I’ve personally never met anyone with a 0 degree conjunction to their asc.

    My ascendant is exactly the cusp of Libra/Scorpio. Therefore, being just 1 degree below, Pluto of course expresses itself through the first house, and ascendant, but more importantly, not through the 12th house as many others experience their Pluto/asc conjunction.

    I found a description of the this placement once that says it is primarily about being alone. Therefore, even other Pluto asc people will never bridge the divide between themselves. Acceptance is the ONLY means of dealing with it. And this is to force one to find the greatest freedom of all.

    1. Joshua: IN RE:
      “” I have tried to act more in accordance with my Libran qualities.”” I am Libran Sun / Libra @ 0 degrees Mercury in H8 / Libran Venus @ 27 degrees cus Scorp (thinking and loving patterns of like a straight-up Plutonic Scorpion) with a Mars/Neptune conjunction in Scorpio at the MC, Pluto conjunct Uranus H8. Having observed my re-actions and inter-relations (business, romantic, familial, …) over the course of decades, I viewed how my Libran tendencies dissipated my strength, undermined my integrity in the interest of false harmony, foisted accommodations, and pax Romana-type compromises.

      “” I’ve personally never met anyone with a 0 degree conjunction to their asc..””
      You have now: Transiting Pluto is now conjunct my Cap rising exactly opposite my Cancer Moon. I’ve been prepping for this some time, ever since handling Pluto H12 matters. So, I knew that when Pluto Cap opposed my Cancer Moon, I would lose female family members. What I did not know is that I would suffer loss of ALL of my family members: My younger sister died summer 2013; my elder sister died summer 2014; my Mother died 30 days after my elder sister died, entombed in September past. I was charged with handling estate as there was no one left, besides my Mother’s husband who renounced, even though I myself am an in-patient at a nursing facility since falling from roof during house fire [Feb 2013] at the time of Pluto squaring Uranus [for which I had prepared, which is why when there was no egress through the blaze and explosions and smoke filtering through shower stall, I doubled back to my emergency escape plan which I had in place not knowing exactly how that Pluto square Uranus phase would manifest but having been fore-warned by the planetary readings.
      At the same time, I terminated relations with “god”parents and my best friend of over 40 years wrt religious matters re-surfaced during my other’s demise (who drowned in a tub). Were it not for the congregation of devoted and gifted astrologers like DarkStar who have committed their earthly talents by helping us to navigate this terrain, I would not, could not have overcome and understood. Now, at the age of 51, I remain deeply indebted over 25 years to these counselors who ahve travelled with me 50 fathoms deep. I am now in a situation wherein I am surrounded by persons OF THE LOVE AND LIGHT BRIGADE who are in awe of me, even as they feel compelled to avoid me – even eye contact. am too much for them – too intense, too powerful, too purposeful, too scary… Now, the Libran in me is hurt and negatively affected by that, but the Plutonic me is owning it, and absolutely loving it!! I have no time, no use for their pussified approach to problem-solving. Fundamentally, I view them as a herd of hopeless heifers and reek of willy-nilly weakness – which I deplore. So, that’s how I’m living, Josh. So pleased to have “met” you and have made this rare cosmic connection. Much respect.

  51. ADDENDUM: “” too intense, too powerful, too purposeful, too scary… “” AND – DARE I SAY IT – TOO SEXY.

    1. Many of the things you said sound incredibly difficult, PlutoPersonified. I feel for your struggle. And again, appreciate your connection to this experience.

      You’re personally having Pluto transit your Asc right now? I am sure that is intensely challenging, yet… it serves a purpose, doesn’t it? You can, at times, feel pain give way to relief at the most important moments, and you can physically feel that you’ve been given a gift.

      Where is Pluto in your natal chart? This is what I originally meant by the conjunction, a natal aspect to the Asc. However, considering how long Pluto transits last, your insight to the conjunction is fully valid.

    2. Dare I enter the fight here? I am chuckling a bit since these latest postings from you, PlutoPersonified, are so Plutonian in that they are intense to say the least, and with the exception of your response to Joshua, scathing. What’s the point? DarkStar is usually such a pleasant place to dialogue. Maybe I should get off the Pluto page. Astrologically speaking, my perception is that you vehemently dis-own the Libran within which is so prominent in your chart. I understand wanting to throw away the Libran indecisiveness but does diplomacy and graciousness count for nothing? Moreover, how can one dis-own any part of one’s chart and aspire to integration and furthering of the Soul’s spiritual evolution? Is that evolution not the point of being on planet Earth? (This is my best guess anyway, since none of us REALLY know…) Interesting too how your Pluto opposes the Moon. Perhaps revealed in your last comments ” I have no time, no use for their PUSSIFIED approach to problem-solving. Fundamentally, I view them as a herd of hopeless HEIFERS and reek of willy-nilly weakness – which I deplore” ? A bit misogynistic there PP. As a side note, I have a Plutonian chart. Currently, Jupiter is conjunct and Saturn is in square w a 2 deg orb. I have experienced much sorrow and heartbreak in my life. I can see you have too. I work very hard not to be bitter – and physical injury has been the hardest so I am not without compassion for you. Is that the nebulous Neptune conjunct DESC right now, or that HUGE Jupiter/Pluto 12th H action right now?

  52. UQoW: “” Neptune will show the shades of grey, ..”” You are in error; NEPTUNE CONCEALS, NOT REVEALS. It takes squares and oppositions to pierce its veil.

    Again, you are in error: Pluto is a test of power, not of strength; that is Saturn’s task. There is a qualitative difference between the two. Know that; understand that.

    Anna: “…you sound desperate to seem alluring,…” To whom?
    Madame, disabuse yourself of such a notion; your lack of comprehension detracts from fruitful discussion and enlightening exchange. As to “…what a turn off.” Case in point; persons who own their Plutonic power are routinely reviled. It would matter to me if YOU mattered to me, but you do not. Your presence is quite inconsequential within these subterranean realms. This is MY domain.

    1. Joshua: My natal Pluto is conjunct Uranus in H8, accompanied by Mercury in H8.

    2. When you fully understand the experience of neptune – you will see it BOTH deludes and illuminates. The first stage of A Neptune transit is to be deluded – often out of choice. The gift of Neptune is to have the veil of ignorance removed. All planets have dual functions and the outer ones take away and give in life changing ways. Neptune is the god of deception but also higher mystery etc etc
      Re Pluto – at what point are power and strength different? Semantics? Power and strength can be expressed thorough aggression/passiveness/passive aggressive – one chooses within the limits of the personality and the situation.
      As Arjuna was told in the Gita – there is power/strength using inaction as action or action by inaction. Both.

      Saturn’s task is to give form. Saturn gives structure. Saturn is the essence of the carbon life based structure – the hexagonal builder. Every noticed the hexagonal shapes it generates at its poles? Or how the body changes with Saturn transits – e.g age 7 (first quarter) bones (structure) calcify in a child ending the soft bones of infancy? Saturn = the builder. It can be a weak structure or a strong one.

      We’ll assume with your last statement to Anna that you’re the only person with Pluto in you natal chart then???
      Sounds like you need a little Freudian therapy. Very appropriate when in the infancy of dealing with Pluto.
      Don’t worry – you have plenty of time and the internet is vast. There ar plenty of other people actually with Pluto in their charts who can help! Oh hang on – everyone has Pluto somewhere!! You can go out in the world and meet others!

      The strength of a structure, a person and the power of their ability to function develops/evolves over time – in tandem with the initiations presented by all planetary transits but mostly outer planetary transits. These are the game changers in transit. Sounds like you’ll have a few yet.

  53. The lengths of your speculation about who or what I am are laughable. As is your interpretation of any intended target.

    Did you honestly believe your diatribe would even make a dent? Move along. Your wounded, flawed sense of your own world is showing.

  54. Going back to Marina’s original paragraph – Pluto on the ascendant – Pluto will affect the path of the individual and in many ways be an obstacle because the native doesn’t have courage to really address what Pluto offers. Pluto is the quest for the sublime – of course to some this might be constructing a galleon out of matchsticks. Or it might be cannibalising a drifter who ended up in your bed. Chaçun a son gout. But it always seeks the sublime. Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is an interesting measure of where Pluto is operating from – since most of us reading this article will be in relatively comfortable situations? i.e running water in our homes, enough food, electricity… we have probably already fulfilled the first four levels.
    Level 5 in Maslow’s HON is what he labelled meta needs – or higher needs of self actualisation etc How this level operates also depends on age and circumstance.
    In Plutopersonified’s chart he/she has generational Pluto/Uranus conjunct with natal Mercury then Mercury is the handle through which to access meaning of Pluto – internet blogs/words/communicate – 8th house all the obvious, death taxes, sex. Assuming that this quest to get to grips with Pluto is on the 5th level of needs, then the internet is a good place to be. A Jupiter transit would help – so I’m also assuming when Jupiter goes into Virgo it will transit the conjunction (must be in Virgo right?) And Neptune must be washing away somewhere opposite the conjunction? Don’t even bother with exact positions because Neptune is very diffuse.
    However, merely being a megalomaniac with Pluto in the mental realm is very likely to backfire unless it goes into a creative pursuit. With Mercury, writing or forensics or even forensic book keeping (Virgo) would be good therapy…or perhaps being an operator on a sex chat line!! ( i jest.. sort of).
    For anyone pursuing the sublime wisdom of Pluto I’d say go to Jeff Wolf Green. (you can spend hours listening on youtube) His work is sublime in this area. Liz Greene is also a Plutonic astrologer and her book on Pluto is brilliant, going in to ancestral patterns, autism, suppressed creativity etc
    I had some very interesting initiations with Pluto. The essence of Plutonic energy is kundalini. In my case this progressed from being a sex symbol in the international eye to being a writer, being surrounded by spontaneous fire while the transition was in place, actually manifesting the energy to lift a man off the ground with one hand around his neck as he tried to attack me… (very gratifying to see him slump against a wall and slink off…!!! He was 6’2″ I am 5’5″!!) then entering an ashram, studying yoga, teaching yoga, studying Vedanta… more kundalini and other experiences of an extra-planetary/interdimensonal kind.
    Pluto (or indeed any other outer planet) is not a one off experience – once these processes start (by transits) they are wheels in motion. I believe they art with the descent into the unconscious or basement if you like and must transmute eventually into the superconscious. But the placements will show where the growth is needed and where the pain will be. These places are burning grounds. Charnel houses. They all serve to break down the ego. Pluto will ignite, Uranus will electrify and Neptune will drown.
    I’ve done charts for a lot of people undergoing critical Pluto transits and I notice they become obsessive about power but rarely use it to make something in their lives. When it isn’t physically used, it becomes a power complex instead. I even have a client who spends hours – no YEARS! doing cabalistic rituals etc and when I asked him what he does it for he says “I feel good afterwards”… he lives of his brother’s wits, a family trust in a rented flat behind a church. I suggested he might actually go to Egypt to connect with people doing the next phase of magic ritual he is taking on but he resolutely won’t! of course he’s actually full of fear! And as Maslow put it – fear of greatness! So many Pluto quests stop short of the mark!

    1. IN RE: ““Pluto – at what point are power and strength different? Semantics?””
      No, not semantics, UQoW, but pure science [physics, in point-of-fact] – both of which you have proven yourself to be equally and wilfully ignorant.
      I will take a moment to expound for those possessed of the mind to engage as peers; the willingness to dispense with and deep-check intellectual superiority complexes at this forum’s door; and the forbearance to disavow oneself of defensive sarcasms, inflammatory rhetoric, and reactionary ad-hominem attacks.
      The difference between strength and power rests in the relative measure of velocity and exertion of force.
      These qualitative distinctions are substantively and substantially – not semantically – different. Their fundamental physical distinction is mathematical and scientific. And, given that science is spoken in the language of maths, I will attempt to break it down meta-physically:
      Commencing around the age of 30, the soul (like a person’s material body) starts losing its muscle mass (sarcopenia of the soul, as it were, given the diminishments due to the number of Saturn’s returns) As the soul cycles, one can expect to have lost a large percentage of the soulful muscle mass as the degeneration of life ensues following so many Saturn returns (every ~7 years, retrogrades notwithstanding).
      Now, strength built-up over the years and incarnations in the form of Saturn’s tests imbue resistance, allowing one to bear weight of this world in present incarnation. So, Saturn aids in resistance-training via weight-bearing conditions and circumstances, allowing us to bear life’s heavy loads.
      Saturn renders strength-training exercises by building the soul’s muscle, and harnessing resistance against opposing forces.
      Such resistance can come from your own physical self, your internal psyche, your physical environs, or from externalised, karmic free-weights which place more than commonplace load levels on your heart and soul, making these muscles stronger. Because these muscles being exercised are attached to underlying bone (our etheric skeleton, as it were), such exercises strengthen a person’s infrastructure (one’s character). To Saturn strictly and solely falls this task.
      Such strength-training buffs up the etheric body, and bulks up soul muscles, while boosting capacity for discipline wrt one’s daily endeavours, encounters, and dealings.
      Saturn can stoically maintain its own and guard against one’s inborn vulnerabilities, inherited character weaknesses, and the jaded soul’s encounters with dis-enchanting obsatcles which which cause it to otherwise stumble.
      Power is measured in units, by orders of magnitude. Some people emanate at mega-watt voltage; some people emit and embody a dead charge; they’re not plugged into their powerbase or their units have been dissipated, or their input has been abused, disembodied, misused, misappropriated, misallocated, misdirected to others within their surrounding environs.
      Strength is measured in gradations- for instance, the number of repetitions of Saturn’s return in the chart; by age 49, the individual has experienced 7 Saturn returns, having built-up endurance in a particular house or area of life.
      Meta-physically speaking, and in the sentient sense, the more power you possess, the more efficient is your execution in this life, on this earth, right here, right now, to do this thing.

      Translating and extending this meta-physical concept, we can say that PLUTO POWER GENERATES both a change in one’s physical universe and a specified time-frane in which the change occurs.

      This is wholly distinct from the concept of Saturn’s sustaining work, where there is no net change in the state of being. PLUTO POWER is needed for Saturn to actually run, rather than marking time in step.

      Pluto evinces output and is a product of torque power, gained traction, and velocity. Pluto is absolutely indispensable to the actualisation of desired outcomes.

      Person possessing only minimal or merely average power release only average-level output; their actions in this life are anemic and feckless, lacking robust potential.
      Only PLUTO POWER combines force and movement, thereby allowing us to “take it up a notch”, to evolve I a given region. Persons endowed with this quality have an advantage wherein they need not rely only on harsh Saturn’s soul-stultifying mechanisms. They can call upon a well-positioned Pluto to redeem their waning, diminished selves, restoring lost function, increasing efficacy during this earthly experience.
      ONE’S OPTIMISED PERSONAL POWER, therefore, is the cosmic combinatory sum of one’s strength (of Saturn’s lessons learned) + speed (speed of evolution achieved by Pluto’s forced exertions towards a desired direction at a given point in timespace) x counterforce of crises = elevated threshold
      As one ages physically and esoterically, muscle power fades even more swiftly than does strength. So Saturn exercises that can produce gains in power become especially important later in soul’s evolution.
      Power-players are those souls engaged (for better or for worse) in strength-functioning exercises accomplished at a faster speed.
      IN RE: “” The first stage of a Neptune transit”” Where is the citation wrt my referencing anything regarding a Neptune transit? Surely, you are entitled to your opinions, but you are entitled to the facts. To re-iterate: I wrote specifically of the elemental, quintessential nature of NEPTUNE.
      Clearly, you lack understanding. There was no discussion of a Neptune transit but of Neptune’s fundamentally passive qualities which engender nebulous illusion and lack of acuity (so aptly demonstrated by you). In and of itself, under such influence –UNLESS CHALLENGED BY ENERGETIC INTERACTION BROUGHT ABOUT BY SQUARES AND OPPOSITIONS OR COUNSELLED OUT OF THIS STATE OF SELF-INDUCED DELUSION – one’s blurry perceptions and vision would remain fuzzy-minded, unchanged, uncorrected, unrectified, defrauded, and hoodwinked.
      To re-iterate, without these very necessary, non-nebulous, countervailing home-truth experiences (often delivered by message-in-a-bottle contacts), its natives would remain cosmic captives on their own, preferred fantasy island.

      IN RE: As to “” We’ll assume with your last statement to Anna that you’re the only person with Pluto in you natal chart then??? “” Again, you miscomprehend. But, since you are so pathetically afflicted, I’ll graciously allow you to pass with that one. You’ve maxed out my stuck-on-stupid quota for the day (the week, actually). Adieu.
      Class dismissed.

    2. uber queen of wands ,do you think this last plutopersonified,diatribe, was written in green in green ink?
      no sorry her totally” too sexy image” at 51 yrs old must be blinding me ,she actually did dare to sat that!

    3. Hi Uber – see you are getting a bit beat up here, and you are so wonderful. Sorry to see it. I agree about Neptune – and I have had Saturn transiting natal a few years ago, then Neptune conjunct DESC in now a waning 4 deg orb. I have thought a lot about this. Plus, a Jupiter return in the 12th conj Pluto etc. I see Neptune as being very deceptive, confusing, nebulous, etc but also, the illumination not in the Sun kind of way – nothing burning hot and bright into consciousness with no need for feelings, but in an awareness kind of way, and that deep feeling of peace that comes with understanding that is beyond words. It is truly all about love and compassion. Best to you always –

  55. Anna! I Have no idea – I didn’t bother to read it! You know its all life – we shouldn’t identify with the crap! Pluto can be the sublime in a cup tea! We get there in the end!

    1. I think we’ve gotten a bit off topic. We were criticizing me, haha.

      UberWands, if you were so inclined to be interested, I’d give you my details in private. Your readings are good. And I love Jeff Wolf Greene, he’s the basis for my understanding of Pluto interpretations and karmic astrology.

    2. quite,and to be fair ,if shes around 51yrs old,,then she must be experiencing chirons return ,think its in pisces ,hence all the Neptune stuff.

  56. Indeed, Anna; I am and it is. Also, to be fair, kindly rake time to re-read my explication regarding the differentiation between strength and power. Mine (though lengthy) was not a diatribe (connoting anger) but a synopsis in fundamental physical sciences. My background is grounded in the academics and I was schooled in the sciences; so…certainly given that emission of planetary energy is a scientific phenomenae, I approach it accordingly. That portion was written in response to a question posed by UQoW; I see that she was being simply sophomorically rhetorical, not seeking knowledge. I considered it to be a teaching moment, but, alas, some people think that they know it all and can only give adbisement, not take it. I thought that I was among intellectual peers here; guess we’re all a bit disappointed in one another.

  57. Well, once again my well meaning words designed for growth were twisted into an occasion for everyone to act really petty towards each other.

    Hope everyone’s checking their mirror. See ya around the water cooler.

  58. Oh, and as for who and what I am or what I’ve done, your glib comments attempting to make scathing comments about my experiences… is just transparent.

    UberWands… you prove my point by acting childish enough to not get past a single statement I made. Get over it. Secondly, self defense doesn’t qualify as protection. A coward, even a dog, will fight for their own life.

    My job, as a teacher of English, science, and soft style martial arts I’ve practiced for 16 years… as I have and continue to travel around China and other parts of southeast Asia currently, has taken my exploration of self assuredness and application of power past what you keyboard warriors will ever understand. In six weeks, I will be in Ecuador, teaching self defense seminars. Maybe you should swing through if you want to see what graceful fighting looks like.

    You see, I felt no need to bring these points up until now. Your ignorant speculation, an endeavour you are all quite bad at, sees nothing clearly. You don’t phase me.

    1. obviously we do phase you, as you wouldn’t have answered, your comments seem somewhat paranoid,i hope I am transparent,
      are you narcissistic, as I don’t find fighting admirable, gracefull ,or otherwise,,can you stop writing your potted autobiography, and think you are endlessly fascinating,you are quite entitled to you owm program,as is every one else is. you don’t have supremicy on what is desirable.

    2. Josh – I’ve published on Tibetan Medicine and Traditional Chinese Medicine as alternative therapies in triage crisis management in global disaster relief situations. Recall the Qinghai earthquake of Tibet? Many of the medical documents belonging to Thrangu Monastery were destroyed. My past research also entailed chronicling catastrophic loss at the University medical libraries in post-quake Fukushima after the meltdown. I want to show you an Old Shanghai photo. Are you Mars in Pisces? What is an alternate means of communication? I’d much prefer to connect with you privately. I perceive that we’re vibrating nearer to the same wavelength.

  59. Oh honey, your own arguments work against you. It’s you who has a problem with me. It is you who feels the urgency to “knock me down a peg.” Haha. You’re the one bothered by my presence. And stop trying to define what confidence is by stating my retort indicates a lack thereof. This is a cheap tactic of logical fallacy with the same ends as your other statements- to immasculate. And I really don’t care.

    I am endlessly fascinating, lol. Sorry you are unable to handle someone like me. But, again, this is your problem, not mine. Your values don’t match mine, oh no! Better hurry to try and show me up! My comments were never meant for you, they were meant for those with Pluto conjunct their ascendant. If you don’t have this, fuck off! Stop meddling in affairs you don’t understand. Take that brand of acerbic man hating and get the fuck outta my face.


    If you want to exchange information, I’d be more than happy. But I won’t be giving out any personal info here.

    1. JOSHUA: I’ve created a new email account just for our unfiltered, unfettered correspondence: [email protected]

      You are invited to dine with me at the grown-ups’ table. Depart from the anti-intellectual toddlers; leave them to sup the slop amongst themselves.

    2. You guys are… hilarious. Its obvious you haven’t been here long enough to know that UQW is a highly respected member of this community with much knowledge to impart.

  60. Lemme save you the trouble of twisting my words (for instance, if I had not responded, Anna in her infinite wisdom, would have called me a coward and declared herself badass of the moment… since I did in fact respond, she resorted to the only other thing she knows, changing her vitriolic argument… Pick a side congressman! First, I know nothing about fighting and am probably a coward, then she doesn’t care about fighting when she finds out I in fact know quite a bit! You’re real powerhouse debater, Anna), and I will give you what you want now:

    Oh, Anna is so clever! I’m such an idiot. God, if only she could somehow use that wit of hers to whip me into shape! Why oh why did I incur her wrath by stating I have been with so many women?! What a fool I am to defy her ssensibilities! Anna, Anna! Mother forgive me!

    We all done here? Or will you lend me another round of your worn out rhetorical tactics?

  61. PlutoPersonified,

    I have Mars in Scorpio, and Scorpio is aligned with my First House. I have Pluto, Saturn, and Mars in the First House.

    But I am Sol and Mercury Pisces.

  62. The largest dose of irony comes in the form of you all angrily railing at me for my belief that anger is justified, necessary, and allowed under natural law. But, you all are smarter than me. So I guess I’ll take your word for it. I’m doh dupid. Fanks for opening my eyes.

  63. “The grown ups table….” tee hee hee! Eating is so last year! The cognoscenti take their nourishment through EMFs. No martial arts required.

  64. Hi Jen
    Yes! It does look like someone has thrown their toys out of the pram… I think they’ve set up a mutual sandpit so that’s good! That kind of ego nd anger is tedious isn’t it! It gets in the way of ideas.

    In 2006 I had Uranus oppose my Mercury and Asc while Neptune opposed my moon and the rest of my stellium, and Pluto trined the latter part of it (natal Sun Mars Pluto Regulus) and honestly – I was on the receiving end of some life shattering deception but actually it also revealed where I chose the deception and got me back to spiritual practice plus rekindling the art path I should have had many moons ago! At that time I was involved in a triangle – with one person having Pluto at 0 degrees conj their asc! He was nothing like curt Cobain however!

    I’ve had Tr neptune opposing Mercury and my asc for ages now and the illumination is like you say – not burning solar but a deep feeling of peace! Its liquid indeed. Dimensions happily blurred!

    I recently dug out an old copy of Liz Greene’s Dynamics of the Unconscious – and it reminds me that the outer planets in the chart are first encountered as primal forces but over time if we’re working with them we get the fine tuning. Going back to Marina’s original article, I always thought Curt Cobain sounded like he had not been fed properly as a baby! You know, left to scream! (which is not to say I didn’t like Nirvana. Catchy pop!) Screaming in the primal Pluto way is OK until you come up against a crisis of meaning – which is perhaps why he committed suicide. Just a thought.

    Neptune – when you get infuses some fine tuning. It takes you into some differentials or harmonics where the personality disappears and shines that light you talk about on Uranus and Pluto revealing them very differently. I think all the outer planets bring up a crisis of meaning but perhaps Pluto’s is more in tandem with the Mooladhara chakra and issues pertaining too? Territory, instinct, primal rage, earth, smell, excretion etc so the crisis is somehow infantile. Pluto issues were very well explored with brilliant radical psychologist RD Laing back in the day before big pharma turned psychology into a chemical affair! RD Laing’s anti psychiatry and Arthur Janov’s Primal Therapy were essentially Plutonic therapies. One of Laing’s resident inmates, Mary Barnes, regressed to infancy for a time, smearing the walls with her faeces, squealing for attention and being fed with a bottle. She later became an renowned artist, poet and, in 1979, the subject of a play by David Edgar. Now that’s a Pluto transformation indeed! Alas I have no idea if Pluto was on her asc.


      And lastly, about outer planetery orbs in transit. Astrologer Howard Sasportas (Gods of Change) wrote so eloquently about these transformational planets. He used a 2-3 degree orb for the trans Saturnians. I see you are not? The waning conjunction must feel a bit different as well. Greene says we must also look at the condition of the corresponding natal planet. A friend of mine who has a Pisces Moon opp Pluto natally is currently experiencing a Neptune transit of that Moon. She is hanging out with a man whose Sun is also conjunct her Moon, so Neptune is on his Sun. They don’t speak each other’s language at all so I really do not know how they are communicating! He is Parisian and apparently her Moon line in astrocartography runs through Paris. Talk about enchantment.

  65. I have read through this whole thread which Started with Joshua stating that he had Pluto conjunct Ascendant, which is relevant to the Article, and basically stated that it is a planetary aspect which commands respect, and really needs to be “wielded” with utmost awareness, which is something that living with this placement may have taught him over the years. Now reading further and seeing that he also has mars and Saturn in Scorpio, I would say that this is IMMENSE power to have under one’s belt, which can be seriously destructive and detrimental to the holder of such power if used for egoic purposes. I am not surprised that he has had so many “encounters.” I think there has been some serious misreads here, and somewhere along the way, ego’s have been bruised and then began the attacks from all sides.. I think you all should hug and make up ;).. Joshua seems like a nice guy, and possibly was reaching out to hear other people’s experiences on this blog with similar type placements to hear what they may have to say. Honestly, having Mars, Pluto and Saturn all in the first house with Pluto on the Ascendant must be a lot to handle, and if not properly harnessed could be very violent if turned outward, or self-destructive if turned within. I think the mere fact that you all have taken the time to keep this thread going for so long with the comments going back and forth MEANS that on some level, everyone’s “issues” have been triggered and has flown up to the surface.. It is no surprise that the Plutonian (Joshua) was responsible for dragging the suppressed material up to the surface for release and healing, both for himself and for everyone else! So what if we all look personally at how we each use our own power, and how we can grow in the use of power in that we seek true power, which is over our own selves, which can also be called “mastery” or “enlightenment” and to stop projecting our use of power outwards onto others, which manifests as domination, control, manipulation, etc.. All the things that our beautiful planet ultimately teaches us so benevolently!. The only true power, is Love(oneness)…

    1. *Our “beautiful planet” that so benevolently teaches us how to use power with love would be Pluto!

    2. Nice words Roberto – and I sincerely apologise to anyone who was offended! I sometimes play devil’s advocate to see where it will go.
      I don’t get what the power thing is though – really! There are people who have wielded immense power that don’t have these placements! I also have saturn in Scorpio and Pluto Mars Sun regulus Venus Moon Jupiter conjunct within a ten degree orb – but I don’t think in terms of power – just action and consequence. Is it immense power or just a power complex? In fact is it powerlessness in the face of the basic energy? Planets aspecting the ascendant shape the path on the way to the solar potential IMO.
      Yes the article is about Pluto on the asc but none of the above are what I would call powerful! Hitler’s Pluto was no where near his asc or his Sun!
      I did a chart for someone with heavy Mars Saturn on his asc and it turns out he was very dyslexic and had been bullied at school. He was a really nice guy but his mother was a flake!
      The problem with astrology is that it encourages a sort of hypochondria where everyone wants to be “special” and more special than everyone else because of their planetary placements! There is no way however of knowing from the horoscope where the soul is on its journey.
      IMO the planets are always potential and over time one has to learn how to maximise it. Pluto on the asc could be as much a barrier as a tool of power. It could be depressive, it could be the degenerative energy which holds someone up and inspires others. Or it could just be a bad temper. Any way, it is not isolated!
      Don’t forget there is an older generation of people with Saturn Pluto conjunct and many of them will have had it on their ascendants – they’ll be in their late sixties and upwards now.
      One of my life long best friends has Saturn Mars Pluto conj (born in 1948) and he utilised it by becoming a truly amazing drummer plus he spent 10 years with Maharishi Mahesh yogi and is a ™ teacher. He is an incredibly disciplined person. These planets square his ascendant. But I think its detrimental to look at things in isolation because there are always other factors – which is why I brought up Neptune and I think Mars Pluto needs to diffuse itself now and agin with a bit of water!
      There must be a lot of people born in 1948 with that conjunction of Mars Saturn Pluto on their ascendants – Leo rising in that case. So perhaps if Joshua wanted he should look to the charts of people of that age to see who the luminaries were? And who fell short of the mark! Pluto comes with a bad reputation lately but examination of the myths reveal he and his wife received the souls of the dead for regeneration. Hades was the more cruel abductor god…and there is Plutus who was Roman god of wealth and the underworld and there is also Mickey Mouse’s four legged friend. Three of them have been amalgamated. We shouldn’t over identify with any myth – because we never know really what props it up and why the story should apply!
      My advice to anyone who thinks they have planetary “problems” is to choose something else to identify with! Myths are stories and there is a lot of freedom in letting the story go.
      Meanwhile ts ironic that the anniversary of Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombing is 6th/9th August! Now that was power!!!

    3. Yes! I too thought there were a lot of mis reads and was surprised Joshua ended up leaving the party with the one person I personally felt was most rude and condescending and not welcome or welcoming to respectful public blogging, that would be PP. I appreciate your take on Joshua’s chart. Sometimes I feel others think I too come on too strong so as a group with Pluto issues, most espeicially the conjunction to the ascendant we really DO need to dialogue – be of support to each other. Mine is the apex of a T square. It has not been easy.

  66. UberWands…

    Seriously? Can you MAKE a comment without being condescending? This is what started everything. You can’t say something without coming across like a sanctimonious bitch. You suggest that my placements are REALLY just insecurity. You suggest that because a man like Hitler doesn’t have these placements, that they do not represent power. And just because you have some planets conjunct within a certain orb doesn’t mean you understand it at all. In fact, your understanding is facile. You are not considering House placement, or any other Aspects to these planets. As well, these placements describe people who experience CHALLENGES to their power which they overcome. Your “chart read” with the man who was bullied? He was supposed to STAND UP FOR HIMSELF. If one doesn’t, then you FAIL the test.

    Quite obviously, you do not understand power, and your chart is not geared for understanding it. My suggestion would be to stop commenting on it.

    1. Joshua – As the late Frank Zappa said – “The computer can’t tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what’s missing is the eyebrows.

      BTW – the man who was bullied was bullied as a child at school. And standing up for himself in an alloys boarding school was not that practical. He developed a better strategy and became very entertaining. He has a great sense of humour. But the real problem in his life was his mother. The key to his recovery was getting the right system for his dyslexia. He’s now flying. His mother however remains on drugs. I did their charts but Joshua knows better…

      I suppose we all have to now bow down to Joshua and his unique stance on power…after all – he has SPOKEN! All hail Joshua All hail Joshua.

  67. Uber – woops – my mistake – it was Uranus opposition to mercury in 2006, not Neptune as is currently, so I really do not know what orb you use for the outer planets 🙂

    1. Hi Jen
      With outer planets I use a 10 degree orb because I’ve noticed they have effect at that distance on some people, if the outer planet is going to aspect a luminary. They often start a process which is not yet visible in the daily life but starts to colour dreams. e.g Pluto transits might begin with dreams of a murderer wanting to enter the house. The outer planets start to announce their arrival by influencing the subconscious – its more stealth than in your face at 10 degrees but then they grind on! And just when you think you’re over it, you realise the planet is not conjunct or opposite or square but its still affecting you – then you find its at a mid point. I’ve also found those to be effective too.
      IMO the outer planets start their process by affecting the landscape one inhabits.
      Using my own experience as an example, when I had a Uranus opposition to my stellium, it began with a dream about being in a fair ground with unusual lights. The lights actually stated to appear in my flat – as electric blue flashes and even glowing blobs! Then it seems everyone I met and consequently caused havoc in my life had Sun/Uranus aspects. And so on.
      In the case of one lady’s chart Pluto stalked her moon with cancer. Cancer doesn’t happen overnight and looking back the 10 degree orb must have been in operation, growing the illness in the basement.

    2. I swore blnd I wasn’t going to comment, as the last lot of joshias adolescent comments ,still have me laughing. I can see his desperate need to be considered a virile male power.A leading psychiatrist ,dealing with psycopaths ,says the’re not strong,but,”weedy and needy”.my own experience of them.
      a true strong man ,would have control over his violent inadeequate self and transmute it into real power ,the power od self realization, not self aggrandisement,(mc leo) and use it for the good of all. a weak person, feels so false and empty inside ,that they have to put others down ,in order to raise them selves up. a real healer ,empowers the positive in others ,doesn’t feel imasculated, by strong females and have the need to subjugate others ,out of feer of showing ,their own vulnerability, seen as weakness, instead of empathetic strength. (whats that song ,your so vain.) the animus and anima ,the male and female in all of us has to be balanced, both sexes are equal. male energy has run amock recently, the pluto in scorpio generation,females rejecting feminism , to pretend to have a big strong man to protect them, thereby giving up all autonomy ,in a mistaken view of an easier life,of apeasement, males have to make females feel inferior ,as they feel the fear in themselves of ,not being up to ,being a shining example, of the knight in shining armour, which in reality ,doesn’t exist. Anyone who feels superior or inferior to anyone else ,has a real problem.I see joshuas plight ,pluto scorp opp Taurus moon ,seeing all females as a reflection of his mother, projection again, of his pattern on to others, also see chiron on Taurus algol opp mars in scorpio, feeling very wounded by the female principle and having to attack ,in so called self defence. I could go on, but as my intention is to facilitate healing not bring someone down, theres a lot more I could say but will keep it to myself. and probably Joshua will just repat f–k off again. I swear I will not laugh.

    3. think the pluto in water signs ,have a real emotional prob,pluto in cancer generation, home, homeland, motherland, empathy for the human condition,female power etc, ie land girls, who had to give up all independence,autonomy, when their men returned from the war. pluto in scorp ,emotional probs power,8th house, sex, birth ,death ,the occult,shared resources etc, what will the pluto in pisces be? lets hope the detritus of the oceans of emotions will be cleared up then.

  68. Stop ripping me off, and stop backpedaling.

    You reveal the very thing I identified early on. You think all people with an aggressive streak need to “tone it down.” How about you tone it down? AGAIN, your take on the warrior archetype needing to “find a better outlet,” so to speak, is naive at best. And your astrological understanding of power is childish. Someone who is destined to rule over others will have many Harmonious Aspects to their dictatorial, or royal, rise. What does this have to do with true personal power? This is not the archetype of the warrior. It’s the tantrums of a baby. Hitler was NOT Plutonian or Martian. He was Saturnian, even Venusian. The fact that you miss this most basic of fundamental cornerstones of Hard versus Soft Aspects is telling. The fact that you erroneously associate power with someone like Hitler is telling. You manage to REVERSE the truth of condfidence and insecurity. A person like Hitler NEEDS to control others, needs to hurt and maim and destroy in order to feel powerful. The warrior archetype feels secure in his ability to protect himself and those he loves. He sees no need to go out and round up gangs of fools to do the dirty work for him.

    You think everyone should approach life just like you do. Everyone should think like you do. Like some dipshit tree hugger. Here’s what I say to that: Fuck your worldview. Plain enough? It isn’t profound, and it isn’t helpful.

    Your little claim to superiority by stating “you don’t need martial arts, you get EMF energy.” Yeah? Why is it I know you’re a yoga practitioner, but you don’t know that soft martial arts is another word for Tai Chi, Bagua, Xingyi, and Qigong/Neigong? Can you send energy into another persons body to harm them at a MARTIAL level? Nope. But I can. Guess what? Yoga is lopsided. You don’t even learn true control over energy, because you only practice half of what is necessary. You Don even learn Emtpy Force application either. My 16 years in Tai Chi have given me abilities beyond your scope. Don’t talk down to me.

    You’ve been told you’re clever once too many times on this forum. I’m unimpressed with your lack of depth and understanding. And I’m done with this dialogue. It’s just an attempt each time to re-assert your supremacy. And I think I’ve established the truth here.

    All hail Joshua.

  69. I just noticed Sigmund Freud had Pluto opposite the ascendant – its a 6 degree opposition but its clear he was the pioneer of Pluto issues. Pluto is in Taurus in his case which is in its detriment I think. His asc is Scorpio so its appropriate he dealt with primal issues and sex. His concepts of the id, ego and super ego are, IMO transposed in the new age parlance to ego, higher self and universal self to some extent. I think Pluto issues begin with the idea of id. His concept of id would be defined as the most basic part of the personality, and wants instant gratification for our wants and needs. If these needs or wants are not met, a person becomes tense or anxious. Or even feels impotent when no needs are met.
    The ego as he had it – The ego deals with reality, trying to meet the desires of the id in a way that is socially acceptable in the world. This may mean delaying gratification, and helping to get rid of the tension the id feels if a desire is not met right away. The ego recognizes that other people have needs and wants too, and that being selfish is not always good for us in the long run.
    The super ego – The superego develops last, and is based on morals and judgments about right and wrong. Even though the superego and the ego may reach the same decision about something, the superego’s reason for that decision is more based on moral values, while the ego’s decision is based more on what others will think or what the consequences of an action could be.

    Now I’m writing this with a disclaimer! But the next few months are going to be very interesting for those born with the early conjunction of Pluto and Uranus in Virgo as there will be a Neptune in Pisces square with Saturn in Sagittarius. I think this is going to be a collective issue too for people with that conjunction involving money issues and thus existential issues – all Plutonic in the sense they are about basic survival. This square is at 7 degrees exact mid November – but I think we’ve already seen what happens when people are threatened at the basic level of survival in Greece. It goes on…

    I have the chart of someone with Moon Uranus Pluto at 2/9/13 – his ascendant is 23 Pisces so even Pluto would be at a very wide orb. I’m now wondering if his birth data was incorrect? – but the unresolved issues of this person’s childhood (addict mother and gambler father, mother used to stub cigars out on his arm, mother committed suicide) have impacted hugely in his life to the extent he is one degree from being a vagrant. He has spent most of his life in revolt against society plus he had a history with explosives. A good example of the Freudian id out of control – as it has no consideration for who it might damage in its pursuit of needs. He is now dealing with the continued diaspora of this family dysfunction as his daughter has run up a huge debt to fuel cocaine use. Ironically – his brother whose chart I no longer have but also has the Uranus Pluto conjunction has established a business but is about £20m in debt…

    Pluto issues are always with us – because we all have basic needs and its a lifelong opus trying to get it al in perspective.

    I’m adding another disclaimer – all this is academic – as is everything I write on DS. No one would take it personally!

  70. Anna – I’ve been wondering about Pluto in Pisces and I’m pretty certain I’ll be out of the loop then! 2044! But Pluto opposite a Piscean ascendant has got to raise issues of unbridled emotion/lack of boundary/sensing the collective angst/combustively creative? A mass transformation? Perhaps from under the ocean? .. when Pluto is in Pisces. Massive upheaval?
    We’re still picking over the bones of WW2 with all manner of issues. Pluto in Cancer was about family – in every sense, and sacrifice. Land army girls indeed. Men on the front line, mothers holding the font at home.

    Politely to Joshua – you might have transference issues. As such, I no longer read your posts. So write whatever you like. Its of no consequence.

    1. uqwfeel its connected to the whole program of human existence, no religious comment ,but feel the veil of tears will be of biblical proportions, maybe to wipe the slate clean,as the life force never dies ,but continues in some other way ,in different dimensions/states of consciousness

  71. WOW!.. Hiroshima has been bombed again on it’s 70th anniversary!

    Uberqueenofwands, actually my Mum’s 70th Birthday was yesterday!(9th, August, 1945! She was born on the day that the second bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.. My mother is my best friend and the most amazing person in my life.. we have an unconditional love for each other.. It is really very beautiful, and I KNOW how blessed I am to have her. In this incarnation, I would have chosen such an amazing female being to be my mother, mother to me being an outer reflection of our inner child, also representing the divine feminine self/goddess within.. I am very comfortable with the inner Goddess that lives within me, she is beautiful.. And of course there have been many challenges along the way to find her inside myself.. Just as my father, who is very Spartan, would have challenged me, and STILL challenges me to find that radiant Sun king within my heart!. Fathers can be more challenging at times! But challenges are there for our evolution!

    And why am I writing this? Well because, Jen made an excellent point, with the need for more balance between the male and female aspects within ourselves. Otherwise, the battle of the sexes would continue ad nauseam! But as Jen pointed out, the true battle is within the self.. The extent to which the anima/animus is projected outside of the self, determines the extent of the divide and the war which rages within the self.. But this is a lifelong journey and process, and thankfully none of us are perfectly balanced, because if we were, we would not be having this human experience of duality in the first place! The mere fact that we are here is because we are polarized within our souls.. that is why our very embodiment manifests as either male or female. So we support each other in finding greater congruency and harmony within ourselves.. And each of us, as male and female expressions of source energy can assist each other, as outer manifestations of male and female energy to finding wholeness and balance within ourselves.

    Joshua, I think you are an amazing guy, with an incredible life purpose.. Living in such incredible foreign lands must have awakened you to such much more within yourself.. S.E. Asia and South America are fascinating! And then teaching martial arts is what I would consider more of the “yang” or male expression (outer/phallic) of mastering one’s energy, which again, for someone with your planetary placements is very healthy and even advisable!. Having Mars in Scorpio alone is enough to warrant such a practice, as I have known many mars in scorpio’s and yes, you guys need to learn how to harness and channel that HUGE conquering libido and transmute it into powerful inner alchemy if you want, like ghandi did, he was mars in scorpio as well.. Of course you can express the energy sexually as well, but at this time on this planet, I believe that the collective consciousness of the planet and we as individuals have more to gain from transmuting sexual energy inwardly into enlightenment.. it is all the same energy, the only difference is how it is expressed, inward= enlightenment and self mastery, outward= procreation and creativity in the world. Neither is good nor bad, it just is! So martial arts is an amazing gift that you are sharing with these youngsters that you are teaching!

    Uberqueenofwands, not that you need me to say this, but the wisdom you so magnanimously share on this blog is so enlightening, I feel that I learn so much from your posts!. Your intelligence and knowledge is compelling, admirable and astounding, and as much as I would like to share in discussions more with you, it is simply a case where I have more to learn from reading your work, rather than commenting, so I just look forward to the lesson of the day and stay silent, just as if I were in astrology class! My intention on this site is to learn as much as I can about astrology, and my knowledge about astrology is rudimentary to say the least in comparison to yours, so I defer to your wisdom! It is so funny, but in keeping with the theme of male female balance, and in truth, our souls are neither male nor female, but asexual, I would say that anyone reading our posts would say that I was the female and you were the male! HAHHA!!.. Because your work is so much more left brained, intellectual and scientific and my words are more abstract, right-brained, heart centered and not factual! I guess we are both doing a great job at balancing our polarities! Blessings to you all!

    1. Roberto – what lovely things to say and I’m so curious about your mother! Its a rare thing that mother and son or even mother and daughter can have that unconditional flow. I wonder who you were in past lives?
      The balance point is a really good one Jen makes. Its not an obvious thing but if you look at the cardinal signs and the Uranus Pluto square, the Libran quality of balance is a big ask in these current times. But… there’s always a but! – we don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and lose our edge! In fact as I write this – I’m thinking of a new quality to ascribe to Libra – that of differential! For instance – you can have two notes which create harmonics – the differential would be the harmonic. Some harmonics are more useful than others – I’m thinking on my feet (or my butt as I’m sitting) but you’ve made me think! Balance – to me implies a sort of neutered state. Differential might be erm.. handy?? Not sure!
      Anyway – what is remarkable that in-between the hammer and tongs of this thread, Roberto has come up with lovely things despite it! I totally agree with you Roberto that truths are asexual! What a relief!

  72. Thank you Roberto – I love your right brain btw ! And for all of us – more thoughts – is this Mercury conj my ASC? Here goes.
    1) no one planet or aspect in a chart is the whole story, but obviously, there are themes, and there is identification with certain energies for certain individuals. In that respect, I think it is a mistake to say if a person identifies with “Pluto problems” that this can and should be let go of until or unless they are worked out! If they are seeing Pluto as the problem then that is the reality for them and where the work is. Astrology to me is a wonderful language to use in order to share the sometimes very complex riddles of our personal psychology, and most especially with a powerful conjunction to the ascendant, our relationships with others. There is that word again – power. And there is the progressed chart. Pluto doesn’t budge from its original degree and sign but house placement changes and smaller planets move on to aspect it. Who knows without looking where one is with their current perspective 2) IMO everyone who has been contributing here understands the importance of house placement, planetary and house rulership, angles, and transits. That is a given. I think it is a legitimate question to wonder about what in a chart points to power and abuse of power. I am in agreement with UBQ that ­this is not always apparent, that Pluto may not always be the major player or the answer. Where Pluto is is our anxiety as much as anything. Jeremy Neal on Chirotic Journal writes brilliantly about this. I know too there is a quote to be had in Liz Greene’s Astrology of Fate which directly addresses this question. Why some placements act a certain way in one individual’s chart but not in another’s, why some survive the most challenging planetary placements, and others do not survive much less, is a MYSTERY. It is my belief, to confirm UBQ that there is evolution of the soul and that it is hard to know from a 2 dimensional chart where oneself or another is with that. Maybe Jeff Green can do it but I can’t, and I still have my reservations considering that astrology itself is still evolving. 3) I have lecture notes from a Jeff Green seminar which clearly state that the way to deal with Pluto “if the soul so chooses” is to look to the polarity point. That is where the soul’s agenda and work can be had currently, where it can become conscious. So obviously, the polarity point with a conjunction to the ASC is in relationships. And then we follow the path of the usual chart reading – sign, rulership etc. It could be useful to watch transiting triggers to that point, and contemplation of mid points etc. We all know what is involved. 4) Kurt Cobain (RIP) forever young, forever beautiful, forever the voice of a generation at a point in time. Look at the man – he was put on a pedestal as the voice of Generation X – he was given Christ like reverence – and he even looks like the Anglicized Jesus. As much Neptunian as Plutonian it seems to me – not withstanding the piercing blue eyes. He did have a broken childhood, he did have angst. That is why we loved him – he came from the heart – from a broken heart. He brought soul back to music and at a darker level than had previously been expressed. Grunge after all followed the Metal Heads. He touched people deeply but never wanted to have that kind of power over them – it was never his agenda. Hitler wanted it, Cobain did not, and turned his desperation it seems into a tragic sense of failure – as if he was called to be do something he just was not up to and saw no way out. And the rest of the chart, OF COURSE, came into play. 5) The more I think about this article, the more willing I am to see the disowned Pluto that is running the chart from behind the scenes (12th H) applying to ASC in my own. It helps me too to understand the 25 year marriage to a Neptunian type I left. There was darkness there, and I willingly went with it to some extent – it felt more real to me. I liked the depth. Currently Venus R is sitting on that Pluto and Jupiter just passed. It T-squares natal Moon/Saturn and Venus exact. In the generational placement of Leo, Neal says the anxiety is about feeling loved and appreciated – it’s all about the love, and in the 12th, Green himself told me it is an unknown, a flying blind, a complete trust in the Soul. I am excited for the Pluto in Virgo generation taking hold of the power – cleaning up some of the toxic mess maybe, making our food fit to eat for all, not just those who can afford it. This may be their personal power, and their anxiety? Not having done it well enough?

  73. Uberqueenofwands,

    Terrific insights by raising the question of the “harmonics” that are created by blending, balancing and “harmonizing” energies.. You too have me on the edge of my seat, thinking… Harmonics is something I work with verbally in active form through chanting and passively by listening to harmonics, especially those created by the human voice.. Harmonics are essentially the transcendental frequencies that are created when polarities unite in common union.. UQW, that is some powerful insight to recognize that when polarities are blended that harmonics are created.. I work with this in practical application using sound, light, crystals and with herbs, but I have never viewed it as ultimately creating a harmony.. Beautiful.. So essentially, the more we harmonize our male-female energy into a cohesive whole, the more glorious a harmony we generate within our beings, and as stated, harmonics are the transcendent, other-worldly dimensions, so we are in essence creating vibrations for ascension!… Hhhmmm… Awesomeness.. Roberto, do you accept this man and woman to be your lawfully wedded husband and wife? Yes I do indeed! Well I now pronounce you, whole and HARMONIZED!!! OK, there is more I would like to share, as those 2 posts by both you and Jen are laden with information, I am still processing one at a time! I really wanted to run with the harmonics!!!! Thanks for making that link there… I am creating a symphony within myself as I process this…

  74. This thread definitely belongs on the Venus retrograde page.. Possibly this Venus retrograde in Leo is brining awareness of how to blend, harmonize and “marry”(venus) our inner divine sovereign King or Queen(leo).. Can you imagine what the harmonics will be when 2 people who have each individually found harmony within their own being come together to create harmonics??!!.. I wonder what planetary aspects those charts may have in synastry?

    1. Roberto – I think this page could use a little Venus right about now! I was thinking this very thing this morning – such synchronicity to find your comment. And last night I had a collective dark adolescent animus dream – murky, not making any sense. Ugh. But back to integration – I was thinking this morning about how if each individual were integrated – whole then we could all work or perhaps become entirely one with each other and this whole crap shoot (is it one?) would be finished. The Venus R is hitting me hard as it is conjunct the ASC and all this REVIEW is happening. Also conjunct Pluto I just have to wonder – who ever decided Pluto was the planet of karma? It is after all such an impersonal planetary energy – so part of the bigger outer world for the most part and I am not sure how it will ever be fine-tuned in a person’s life. It takes so long to plow through a house. This makes the effects almost imperceptible as they are happening. Pluto remains a mystery to me. I see evidence of its assigned attributes far more when dealing with those who have planets in Scorpio, the ruthless part. If it is the higher octave of Mars then one would hope the energy would be used to transform in order to transcend but how often do we see that?

    2. Roberto,every planet/state of consciousness, has a harmonic ,seen and unseen, it goes far beyond the solar system.There is black hole astrology ,and every planet has a vast function in the metaphysical body, elimination ,is not a vety pleasant job, but without it the whole system would fail. most Vedic astrologers don’t use the outer planets, but now ,others are beginning to include them. there is a mathematical resonance In frequency ala cymatics ,deseign, pattern, between all the orbits of planets ,even the other solar systems ,resonating in this particular universe,and have extremel different orbits, ie some backwards, and the timescales are very varying. W
      hat we are, goes way beyond this universe ,we are just astrocartogrifically an organ ,or cell ,or subbattomic microcosmic, to macrocosmic other states of consciousness ,indide another so called part of the metaphorical body-bodies.

    3. harmony or disharmony of the spheres, descants, duets of overtone chanting ,seen to unseen,as I always say painting a picture ,either in paint or music, to depict a tree in 3d ,it always needs a shadow,to make it seem real .beyond this life ,of time and space ,we are all simultaneous ,and the creation adds to itself endlessly.

  75. UBQ – in response to your comment about survival and the chart you were reading for the man with the childhood abuse, and no surprise, dysfunctional current family… It seems to me the darker side of Pluto often involves a Neptunian theme. And of course, the dysfunction beoomes generatonal so the transcendence, the final conquering is what it takes to break the link so that future generations are not carrying on in the same way. This is the part that feels so much like a set-up – so fated – and I think that is also why Pluto got assigned the non Saturnian karmic agenda – the one with inherited, no immediate consequence. You do a lot of charts, I do not. This is where the knowledge comes from IMO – in seeing the many ways these energies play out in others’ lives. I wish someone would say – this is your task – that we would be entirely conscious of that and just get on with the work. Instead – it is a deep dark secret we muddle through and finally have, hopefully, some perspective.

    1. Hi Jen and Roberto – this is such a huge subject! Both of you have just added brilliant ideas – and just before I read Jen’s last comment I had a sort of AHA! moment – Jen’s comment about Pluto transits having the Neptunian theme… I was thinking of outer planets as The Gods of Change (also great book by the late Howard Sasportas). It seems the outer planets all push towards the same thing – going beyond the boundaries of the ego and transcendence of it. As such there is a kind of insanity with it. The ego (in its modern every day sense) is king of every day life. It doesn’t matter what challenge the outer planet brings, Pluto Neptune or Uranus, they all want to take us into “breakdown” before we resurface. To dissolve, scorch or electrify out the ego. In every case, I think we are nudged towards the “state” of formlessness. Some go with it and others kick hard against it, reinforcing what they’re familiar with. And get challenged again… kicking against it with a brittle response is going to end in a broken bone??Or worse!
      I don’t know who decided certain outer planets were the higher octaves of others – e.g Pluto to Mars, Neptune to Venus, Uranus to Mercury – but its what we’ve come to accept. Certainly Pluto is overloaded with Scorpionic qualities – but this might be wrong! Perhaps its time to question that! Our ability as a species increases daily to explore the larger environment – the galaxy, the universe, so why would archetypes from one planet be merely replicated with embellishments in another?
      I also don’t see why Pluto should be so connected with karma – for the exception that Mars is “instant karma” because Mrs creates action therefore Pluto has to be more so?? But is it? Only if Pluto is perhaps the planet of untaken action? In her book on Pluto Liz Greene discussed a family with autism and unexpressed creativity – there was a lot of unexpressed fire (as I typed fire, a news reader spoke the word fire at the same time!) through generations. Buts that the same as karma?
      If Saturn gives shape and form/structure – then it must always work with other planets to create the building… perhaps no one planet is Lord of Karma – but all of them work together?
      I also question the use of certain degrees to the exclusion of others. There is nothing which is not connected in the universe – and in a chart of 360 degrees, any one object is in relation to another. In esoteric astrology there is a Science of Triangles and the relationships of plants and schemes in this school is not confined to a few angles.
      I hope that the Pluto Uranus Virgo generation with its gift for techno things and detail can work further to integrating the evolving human mind with the new discoveries in the Universe.
      When I mentioned “dropping the story” – I should have added that Pluto/Scorpionic notions such as the black hole – have come into everyday parlance. As such the black hole is a fearful thing. Ironically Hawking’s book which spawned the phenomena came out in 1988 when Pluto was conjunct Mars in Scorpio!!! SO how appropriate it has become an article of faith and even propaganda!!! Of course since then an array of scientists have actually revised the idea and discovered black holes are in fact enormous sources of light!!! (They still argue of course but the black hole was ever a product of a mathematical equation and NEVER an observation!)
      How better might people feel about themselves if the black hole were redescribed as a light source and a really bright one at that! It is a power source, a source of radiation.
      I think all the outer planets ultimately ask us to “see the light.” Author of “Entangled Minds”, scientist Dean Radin suggests that “the present era may evolve into an Integral Age” where the scientific world view revolve around holistic concepts” … mind will continue to be viewed as a dynamic interplay between brain and mind… as an emergent process… perhaps the primary driver of the process”
      So we need to look further at our planets of transformation. Pluto? A little less Darth Vader, a little more Mickey Mouse’s dog??
      (oh ! Roberto – now there’s a differential to be explored!!!)
      If the actual planet is made of nitrogen ice, rock and theoretical water, both ice and liquid – then perhaps there are the gaseous and watery or Neptunian qualities?
      Observation of Pluto from the 2015 mission shows it has a plasma tail connected to the solar wind! (length unknown at this point). Its an electro chemical connection to the Sun! It has a huge atmosphere but its not yet known how this atmosphere formed. If it has an electro magnetic field, its unlikely there will be water in it though! More to come!
      Lastly – its a lovely little bit of synchronicity that Pluto was named by 11 year old Venetia Burney, daughter of Oriel Professor of the Interpretation of Holy Scripture at Oxford! She was a keen reader of mythology and suggested the name. Pluto was named on May 1 1930. No planets in Scorpio, but a cardinal square between Uranus/Mars conjunct in Aries square Pluto in Cancer. The Moon was in Scorpio on the day the unnamed planet was discovered however. Venetia Burney had Mars in Libra square Pluto in cancer natally! As an adult she became a maths and economics teacher. (sad!!! what happen to her love of myths??)
      IMO we have to know more about the actual planets and how they connect into the human psyche and astrology has to be reintegrated with astronomy – observed not theoretical.
      Interesting too that other names suggested for Pluto – Atlas,Zymal, Zeus, then Percival and Constance. Perhaps Venetia picked up the sense of impending world chaos or merely as a cild she was fascinated by a lord of the underworld? We don’t know which book she was reading!
      Phew! That was a journey into the Kuyper belt of Trans Neptune wasn’t it!!!!

  76. WOW UBQ!

    That was indeed a journey and you were downloading and channeling some serious information there, that is why you even had the television mirroring your thoughts.. Beautifully written! Since reading Jen’s comments on Pluto yesterday evening, I was preparing to write a response to Jen, but UBQ hit that nail on the head with a scholarly written article! So I will just add in my own very personal views…

    The outer planets, that exist beyond Saturn all govern an aspect of consciousness that is not capable of being integrated into the human structure, otherwise your form would be obliterated. That is why the Trans-personal planets challenge us so greatly, because they really challenge our egos to evolve. We can all embody the energy and consciousness of all planets up until our lord and master of form and boundry, Saturn. Once you pass Saturn’s boundires, you are in the realm of the God’s, or circle pass not, unless as UBQ stated you intend on being obliterated! In a basic, simple analogy, planets up until Saturn essentially comprise various aspects of “The self”, and the planets beyond Saturn encompasses “The other” and in essence and in keeping with our Venus retrograde theme and “relationships”, the self can have a relationship with another person, but one can never Be the other person! You can try, and we do always when we procreate with another person, but what we end up with is a harmonic!! A harmonic is created, (thanks UBQ) when the self (inner planets) interact with and form a union with the other (outer planets).. However!!! As it is the same with human relationships, the extent to which the self is whole and complete (you have owned your inner planets) determines the extent to which the relationship with the other(outer planets) is harmonious! The outer planets are not there to be embodied, again you can never embody the consciousness of the trans-personals, it will destroy you. No person can be Omnipotent(pluto), Omnipresent(Neptune) or omnisavant(Uranus). Those are attributes of the Gods, and only the God’s are allowed to weild those powers, and thankfully so otherwise we would all be destroyed at the hands of humans ever since human time began!. So the personal problems that we all encounter with the Trans-personal planets is when we become seduced by the temptation to try to claim that level of power for the self, which you can never, but you sure can destroy yourself in an attempt to be “God-like”.. A clear parallel can be drawn with our own human relationships when the self meets the other person, and instead of creating a harmonic by the meeting and sharing of two complete separate identities, we try to either control/have power over(pluto) the person, Loose ourself(Neptune) in the person or revolutionize/change(Uranus) the person!.. So parallels are there! As above so below!. I have found that when I have my own personal struggle with a Trans-personal planet, it is ALWAYS because the relationship with one of my inner planets is not harmonious. I would say, it would depend on what area of your life is unfulfilled and where and on who you are projecting the dissatisfaction and how you are expressing it.. So in order to develop right relationship with the outer planets and actually to be able to create a harmonic with the outer planets, take a look much closer to home first! Get that relationship in order first with your self, claim, own and embody the consciousness of your inner planets, and then and only then can you have a healthy relationship with the outer planets.. And uniting all this with and coming back into our inner world and our venus retrograde, become whole and complete within yourself first(inner planets), then and only then are you truly ready to create harmonics with another person(outer planets)! The deep inner struggle and turmoil with the outer planets only ensue when the undeveloped and unevolved human ego tries to play “God” and seeks to weild the power of the Outer planets! That power is only for “The Gods”!.. We can only ever create a harmonic with it! Just like we can only ever create a harmonic with another human, we can never control, change or merge with them! UBQ, I like that you personify Pluto as Pluto, Mickey’s friend and not Darth Vader, for I truly feel that one can develop that relationship with Pluto!. Pluto can truly become man’s best friend!

    I have to thank you very much, both UBQ and Jen for asking the right questions and for sharing your wisdom! UBQ, I feel we both “vibe” and connect mentally on another dimension. It may be my mercury on Regulus(20′) that is communicating with your stellium in Leo decan 3! Here’s to harmonically filled relationships with all of life! Thank you Venus retrograde!

    1. The development of a Harmonious relationship with the Outer Planets is not an exercise in becoming more adept at learning how to wield and command their Godlike abilites, BUT on the contrary it requires the human ego to evolve out of the temptation to be seduced by their extra-ordinary powers.. The outer planets and the consciousness that they embody were not intended for use by humans upon other humans and creation! The outer planets were created to be used by The GOD’s upon humans and all of creation!.. In this regard, the outer planets can be likened to the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden! We have access to all we need in the paradisiacal garden (inner planets) yet still we yearn to be like The Gods and are tempted to try to weild their powers by eating of the Tree of forbidden fruit(outer planets)… We in turn, in evolving out of the temptation of trying to play God(eating the forbidden fruit), may transcend our egos and attain the ultimate liberation(Garden of Eden!)So that’s how we create harmonics with the outer planets, by not trying to play God! Trying to play God is what destroys us, our relationships with the outer planets, and with each other!

    2. Roberto – this is very eloquent. Your writing reminds me of Sasportas’ in The Gods of Change. I am reminded too that Vedic astrologers don’t pay these big guys much mind when doing a reading, so again, the personal planetary energies are the prime focus. Also. the transpersonal planets have such long transits. As you say – they are Godlike in that their power is so archtypically beyond human capacity and is a great sort of engine running in the background with long term themes. Your comments blend beautifully with UQW’s take that there is an experience of insanity once any of them take hold at poignant times in our lives. We are truly out of control because WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE, only to be reminded of our smallness, humbled by the extraordinary, and sometimes we feel near annihilation.

      UQW, “Only if Pluto is perhaps the planet of untaken action? In her book on Pluto Liz Greene discussed a family with autism and unexpressed creativity – there was a lot of unexpressed fire[…] Buts that the same as karma?” – I think you are onto something here – the UNFINISHED BUSINESS THAT IS ANCESTRAL -IT’S NOT OUR ACTIONS (or inaction) currently that has the karmic component but those from whom we came that we are trying to finalize, to transform in order to transcend. And perhaps our own if we believe we are re-incarnated. And Saturn of course is all about Time – in a linear way to my mind, and therefore, the concept of consequence and duty in the here and now. Do it right or do it again kind of thing. Again about Balance – making things right – even paying forward, transforming in a personal way in order to re-incorporate, bearing the consequence, setting up the future etc. Very mundane stuff but truly character building. There is nothing insane about Saturn – that is why I find him to be a friend if somewhat of a party-pooper at times.

      Finally – I really like the idea of harmonics, and I believe this is why we are so moved by music. The whole concept of maintaining balance however I do believe is very much one of impermanence. Libra is not a fixed energy. There would be no balance to maintain if there were not always the possibility of things going out of kilter – which they always do. It is something to strive for but it does not have edge as uber says – it can be blissful but it comes necessarily from a bit of chaos or dissonance. Fun stuff to think about 🙂

  77. Balance is though, probably a precursor, a prerequisite of integration. Catch the right moment – the permanence comes once integration takes hold? Hmmmm.

  78. I’m blown away by what Jen and Roberto have written! Magnificent work. Plus I have to thank Joshua for his input because we took the Pluto challenge that bit further! No ill will.
    A thought on balance – it ever ends! Perhaps why Libra is always gracefully picking a fight!!! (Mars in Libra – a great position for an warring general…!!) I was listening to a discourse on Advaita last night by Swami Nithyananda. He was explaining that once you think you’ve “got it” – got a method or a system nailed,- to drop it! Once you have it it is already past and not present! Dances on the edge of a razors – or paralysis! Methinks the outer planets test the dancer. She has to keep ahead of the steps! Imbalanced in the balance…
    Right! In the method of Pluto to transform, I’m getting out of my PJs and engaging with the day. The gods can come shopping. I need biscuits.

    1. UBQW,

      Ok so you are both posting things that I am thinking, but beating me to it and also answering questions that I have asked in my mind, but have not written verbally! I actually wanted to send a shout out to Joshua today to thank him for being the catalyst for sparking these incredible posts.. And well, you did that already today! And also, it was my intention to ask you if you mercury was in virgo, because it so fits with your uberdubersuper brilliant brain! And go figure, you inform us of your mercury in Virgo today! Just listen to that Lioness Roar for her biscuits. Hope you enjoy tearing them up!!!:)

  79. ANNA,

    I want to thank you for commenting on what I would have shared regarding the Outer Planets, because your comments clearly indicate to me that I may not have been clear enough on what I am saying. Possibly because I was processing it myself as I wrote it, so it was very verbose and lengthy. So anyway, I will give it a brief shot at it this time!

    What I am suggesting is that maybe, we can develop a more harmonious relationship with the Outer Planets by ALLOWING their transpersonal transmissions to be exerted upon us, and expressed through us, rather than trying to control or claim that energy, which is where the distortion enters. The inner planets (within Saturn’s boundries) are the energies that we can personally claim, own and embody (The individual, individuated form) and the Outer planets are the energies to which we can surrender for ultimate transformation. Possibly it is when our egos resist the transformations of the outer planets, because they do lie outside of the boundries of the egoic self (Saturn) and may feel “threating” to the self, that we distort the energy by deflecting it and projecting it outwards onto others! So in keeking with our Pluto theme, for example, when Pluto is making an aspect, either natally or transiting, there will be great potential to allow that energy to transform us to our core, whereby we surrender our egoic will to Divine will OR if we reject and resist Pluto’s transmission, the energy distorts itself, and we project the energy outwards onto others and succumb to Pluto’s reputation for psychopathy and Meglomania. So Of course the Outer Planets are important! Actually they are of paramount importance! And especially so in a birth chart! They are the first aspects I personally look for, are the aspects that the personal planets make with the outer planets, so I actually think that those systems that do not factor in the outer planets are missing most of the juice! 🙂

    1. Roberto, all im saying is that its going to happen anyway,ego or not ,maybe not at the time of a negative plutonian act ,but it will force its way into our view before ,on or after death.
      its predestined to happen on a soul level ie Andromeda galaxy destined to collide with the miky way,or the sun destined to swallow all the consciousness of all the inner plants when it dies and becomes a red dwarf. the program of the human race goes beyond this solar, system, or even the rays,alan oken describes it very well.if we understand what the chart says ,then we can as best as we can work with it as you say allow it.btw yo say you are,
      mars on 20 leo regulus ?any other info.

    2. HI Anna!

      I get your point exactly! And you are correct, everything that is, IS ONE in its purest essence!.. ALL ARE ONE!… So of course that includes our little outer planet “Gods” too!. They too are little specks in the grander scheme of it all!!
      Anyway, as for the question about my chart, I know that UBQW has an entire stellium of planets in LEO decan 3, and it seems to me like we connect on a mental level, at least for me that is, so I was thinking that it may be my MERCURY which is in LEO 29 degrees and conjunct REGULUS (20′) may be in communication with her stellium!

      Funny you ask about my Mars, although I typed mercury, no coincidence there, as Mars is a bit of a blind spot for me, and I say blind spot, possibly because it is in fact unaspected! Not sure.. I have Mars in Libra conjunct Spica, in a conjunction (separating) with Pluto at 7 degrees, and moving into a square(applying) from Jupiter, also at 7 degrees!… So my mars is sitting between a conjunction with Pluto and a square with Jupiter, but with 7 degress separating both aspects formed with my mars, I am not sure! So I may just really have an unaspected mars after all! Why do you ask about my mars??

    3. HI Anna!

      Yes agreed with you fully on that! Every aspect of existence is permeable, one with the other, and ultimately the illusion of separateness will be fully dissolved back into cosmic Oneness again! So of course when referencing the ultimate fate of all creation and we are talking about Big Bang and Big Crunch, of course our solar system is miniscule in relativity! This talk about Ultimate power and destruction is STILL SO PLUTO, so even though we have ventured out beyond the confines of our solar system, the “Glamour” of Pluto’s power still seduces in the background.. Big crunch! That must hurt!

      Anyways, to answer your question, it is not my Mars that is in leo on Regulus, it is my Mercury that is in Leo 29 degrees and conjunct Regulus (20′)..

    4. Roberto,do you have Neptune on the Great Attractor? your comments about your mother and the androgeny of the co creative pro creative force ,makes me wonder, also if mars is on 23 ,it would be sextiling mercury nearly,any further info? like is your moon in sag.

    5. Roberto,dont know if youd call birth the big crunch,but as all energies seem to be running away from the big bang point ,to its etheric rightfull cellular placement ,just think this is the gestating embryo growing ,getting ready for the right stage of birth.programmed at and before , the time of big bang.

    6. HI ANNA!

      To be honest, I have never had anyone show any interest in my chart before! But then again, that is probably because within my circle of connections, I am usually the only one interested in astrology, so I do have to admit I feel a bit like a kid in a candy store on this blog! It’s like Christmas morning on this site everyday! Are you kidding, a group of people all going nuts over astrology? TOTAL EXCITMENT!

      I have no idea what “Neptune on The Great Attractor is” but nonetheless I am intrigued to know how you figured out my moon sign! You have some great talents! Yes, my moon is in Sag Decan 1, but it is also square Saturn, by one degree! My ASC is also squared twice as well! Actually, my entire chart is filled with tight squares! What sun sign are you Anna?

    7. ANNA,

      I looked up the Great attractor and it looks like you are correct again! It depends on orb used.. Your insights are Intriguing to say the least… Neptune is 15 degrees 30 Saggitarius and is squaring my Sun by orb of 1 degree and Neptune is also inconjunct my Ascendant by 1/2 degree… I am fascinated that you can guess planetary placements based on behavior! That’s some real talent!

  80. Ha ha Roberto! I have to say, when I eat my biscuits its a very Virgoan affair with shades of the ancient zodiac’s Hydra thrown in! The biscuits are usually dissected into small pieces and the dipped in teeeeeaaaa! Thus I delude myself that I am not being a full leonine hog and scoffing the lot!!!

    – more thoughts on Pluto…

    “the energy distorts itself, and we project the energy outwards onto others and succumb to Pluto’s reputation for psychopathy and Meglomania. So Of course the Outer Planets are important! Actually they are of paramount importance! And especially so in a birth chart! ”

    Thanks Roberto for saying this. its paramount. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that the unresolved patterns/motifs/enegry end up as complexes. Which is maybe why some “Plutoians” end up with the “glamour” of “being powerful” – whatever that means! e.g if Mars is not worked with then Pluto is going to be a big ask.
    I have to say, I think astrology needs a kick up the behind! Liz Greene was very against astrological “cook books as she called them because she upheld that the whole of the chart has to be looked at. And the function of a chart is surely to see how one can grow with it? not be a slave to it?

    ALice Bailey in Esoteric Astrology makes a point of the problem of world glamour (also the glamorous of the individual).
    Glamour begins with illusion – when the mind and brain are not attuned to the light of the soul.

    The Problem of Glamour is found when the mental illusion is intensified by desire – “kama-manas” produces glamour. It is illusion on the astral plane. At this time, we are feeding the astral massively since the entire world seems in the grip of desires – be they goods, 15 minutes of fame, migration to Europe, designer handbags, short cuts to enlightenment! The clamour is out of control!
    We work towards fusing the soul over the personality – this is the journey? So until the personal planets are worked with, the other gods are very troublesome indeed.
    As it stands, the “glamours” are emotional states which stand in the way of understanding the workings of the Higher Self.MAybe while all astrological enquiry seems to start with the moon?
    In the tabulations of glamours in the 7 Ray system at the heart of Esoteric Astrology, Pluto is a Ray 1 planet – these are the glamours of Pluto.
    The glamour of physical strength.
    The glamour of personal magnetism.
    The glamour of self-centredness and personal potency.
    The glamour of “the one at the centre.”
    The glamour of selfish personal ambition.
    The glamour of rulership, of dictatorship and of wide control.
    The glamour of the Messiah complex in the field of politics.
    The glamour of selfish destiny, of the divine right of kings personally exacted.
    The glamour of destruction.
    The glamour of isolation, of aloneness, of aloofness.
    The glamour of the superimposed willupon others and upon groups.

    Looking at the examples Marina quoted in her original article – I can see these glamours well represented!

    Since I stared the stuff on harmonics – I know about the harmonic charts etc but what I had in mind was a bit different. I’m thinking – and with defence to Joshua who made me think of this, that we do use our bodies to process. As a martial arts teacher he would be processing his Pluto Mars (both?) through his body. I used to teach yoga (still practice) and I gained a sort of awareness that the body was like a tuning fork in some way. We get a “feeling” when certain music touches, enervates or irritates! I lie the work of David Sereda and what he has found with harmonics/differentials. Within certain scales there are distortions. But he found a 10 tone scale using maths from the Great Pyramid. (he sees it as a crystal oscillator) We are still working with 10 celestial objects. When Sereda used the 10 tones together he found they played with no distortion in-between! Tara la la!
    So get them all in balance and you make the perfect chord! They all blend into one intense note!
    According to this work – he suggest we may have only worked with 7 chakras because we only knew 7 tones but he suggests there are ten, the other three above the head. These may be commensurate outer planetary energies?
    This is an excellent video showing what he did
    p.s d you think if we leave a cup of tea and a biscuit for Joshua he might come back?

    1. Oh! I have no idea how that happened but half my post has been replicated! Weird! Apologies!

    2. The first one hadn’t been posted for some reason. Deleted the replicant and approved the first one. I will get around to have a read of all this. The bits I have been catching look really interesting. This is a 1966 Pluto/Uranus square AC speaking!

    3. UBQW,

      I LOVE that information you posted on “The Glamours of Pluto and esoteric astrology! That is brilliant work! You are definitely pointing me in a direction there! Thank you for sharing!

      I am SO happy to hear you make your teatime a Virgoan affair! That warms my virgo heart! May I join my lady for tea, and we shall talk about the stars?!! LMAO!

      I think you are just the right person to Leave our dear friend Joshua a cup of tea and a biscuit! Although, I am not too sure he may accept!. I think he may be having empanadas, churros and other ethnic delights in Ecuador! Our tea and biscuits are BORING! HHAHAH!!

  81. Well with all the Virgo (yes!) energy, lets give a shout out to Jupiter moving into Virgo right now! With a 3 deg Virgo ASC making an exact quincunx to Merc in Aries (enormously frustrating) this is going to get very interesting this coming year.

    Now I must have some biscuits with tea -yum, and contemplate all this wonderful information. Really enjoyed the video on harmonics UBQ, and as far as Mars being isolated in your chart Roberto – this is called peregrine, no? Very significant. Is it involved in any disposition? Any planets in Aries? sound like it is a midpoint between two other planets? This is way beyond my knowledge. I do want to redeem myself here about about the outer planets. I am unable to cite the author but I know that the big guys work through the smaller planets in order to fulfill their agenda. I think because they are so big and long term there is a very fated quality about them. The answer to using them is to let them have their way and of course – to be conscious of the smaller planets they are working through. Sometimes hard to get perspective on one’s own chart sometimes. Much easier in retrospect.

    I am very interested in all forms of energy healing so I really like the idea of sound being able to harmonize the body.

    1. HI JEN!

      Yes I believe it is called Mars peregrine, but the other questions you asked, I have no clue either! That is why I am having Marina read my chart for me! So excited about that BTW!

      Anyways, if you are interested in sound healing and vocal harmonics, I HIGHLY recommend the work of Jonathan Goldman and Robert Norton! Excellent work, especially Jonathan Goldman, I have used his cd’s both personally and in my work for years! If you lived closer, I would share the sound healing cd’s and tools that I have with you!. But I am sure I am way too far away! Let me know if you would like any other information about sound healing, and I can definitely help you out there! As far as the technical astrology stuff, that is Marina’s and UBQ domain! Yes, cheers to Jupiter FINALLY moving into Virgo as well! SUN VIR 16 degrees here!

  82. Hi Marina (the lesser spotted Pluto square!!!) – Will you be considering the inconjunct? It might prove to be even more revealing since it is described classically as being unconnected. Its a distorted harmonic. As any Leo married to a Capricorn would know… twice! Oddly – when I cross reference with my Mayan astrology i find my lessons are learned through discord. Well fancy that!!! Pluto in conjunct in synastry must throw up some horrors!

  83. Hi Roberto – re your unaspected Mars – surely theres an angle to something somewhere?? Have a dig into the old classical angles and see what shows up! I like Dariot’s orbs which are much larger and he referred to orbs as being circles, radiations and beams of the planets. More illuminations, less carpentry! And here is a nice picture for you to adjust over your Mars!

    1. Thanks UBQW!

      I appreciate that information, I will look up Dariot’s orbs and see what shows up. And yes, there are 2 aspects, one a separating conjunction with Pluto, 7 degrees, and the other an applying square with Jupiter, also 7 degrees. Would you personally consider the conjunction to Pluto or the square to Jupiter? I would love to hear your view on that. Mars is the only “wild card” in my chart! And having it in Libra as well, hmmm.. I think I need to find out! Beautiful diagram, btw.

  84. Hi Roberto – Aren’t applying aspects supposed to be stronger? But since Mars is in Libra – I think you can exercise some choice! Or find the balance!!!

    In an earlier post I mention the absence of an obvious Pluto aspect in Hitler’s chart (being a man of power) then I looked again and found this from Lyn Koiner ( So we might look at other aspects and not just the obvious?

    “QUINTILE and BI-QUINTILE (72 & 144 degrees)

    This is a highly creative aspect, even in a natal chart. Persuasiveness is a part of its influence. The Bi-Quintile is considered much more persuasive than the 72° Quintile. Its influence on an event is to bring a creative solution to a problem, a logical resolution rather than a Septile-Type solution. In problems, your personal ingenuity, creativity and influence can manipulate your way out. A student found that a negotiating deal was resolved when the Progressed Moon was Quintile Mercury. Minor aspects manifest near exactness.
    In the natal chart, the planets involved in the Quintile aspect often describe personal talents and qualities for which we become known – Hitler had a Mars-Pluto Quintile; Marilyn Monroe had a Venus-Neptune Quintile. It is said that Quintile Dominant personalities have a strong sense of mission but they must first define what they want in order to get it”

    Now! I know this is a thread bout the opposition to the asc but I’m really interested in the other aspects too! Perhaps they explain what we can’t see with the usual aspects but manifests anyway!

    Also Anna’s work re the new – well newly known – celestial objects is interesting indeed. We have to be careful though with these new object because I’ve noticed they are acquiring meaning without proper investigation – I attempted a discussion with Alex Miller (Black Hole astrology) but he doesn’t understand the science of “black holes” – i.e there is no such thing as a black hole! There has never been an observation of one. But Miller has taken on the accepted science without question anyway! “members of the establishment who claim through the literature to have found black holes, privately admit that no such thing has ever happened.” Stephen Crothers, mathematician.

    The new cosmology observes massive ropes of current which draw magnetically to one another – the resulting point or Z pinch creates a galaxy. These pinches are in fact gigantic power sources but of gamma radiation! (sometimes called a Bennet pinch too). Its actually very exciting because as we can now see distance and massive objects, we can make more sense of our ancient mythology. It seems there is now a mythology around the black hole – when this is actually a grand error!

    The phenomena known as the Great Attractor is at 13 degrees Sag – for everyone – and is such a vast system that I don’t think we’re ready for a proper interpretation of it as we don’t know what it is!!!
    You can read about it here

    IMO we are looking for new myths and using way too much information over observation to create them. Its no accident that Black Hole theory and the gloomy all devouring notion of what lies at the centre of a galaxy has taken on a Plutonic flavour! A Brief History of Time came out under a Mars Pluto conjunction. Stephen Hawking has a Pluto Mercury opposition! This tr conjunction in Scorpio would have been very hard on his Natal Mercury/Pluto opp. Isn’t it amazing that a man being devoured and paralysed by a deeply vile disease created such a dark and dismal devouring idea as the black hole!!!
    Hawking is generational Pluto in Leo. So he was bound to be creative about it! His Mercury and Sun are in conventional Capricorn and while he hatched the book, would have had Saturn Neptune Mercury conjunction going over it!!! Lordy! He also has Moon Neptune conj on Alkaid. Hmm… While his life resembled a black hole, he made it fact by the use of maths. But observation revealed otherwise!!! This is a lengthy but readable account of why there is no black hole but a source of immense light!
    Meanwhile – the picture!!! Move over Pluto and let the light shine!

    1. UBQW,

      This is just brilliant what you have written here, and very thought provoking. It seems like it is all a question of semantics AND PERSPECTIVE! So do balk holes exist? Well, there are vast pockets of space that exist in our universe that contain “no-thing”, no thing being no created forms, also known as NOTHING! Scientists have called this space which pulls and sucks creation or “things” back into it, black holes.. Can we not see the universal truth here again, as above so below? We are simply viewing on a cosmic scale a process of birth and death! Form emerging out of the formless and form returning into the formless.. That is all that ever happens, and the rest is semantics and perspective!.. So to the extent that we “exile” and “vilify” and judge death would colour (very appropriate word to use here) this phenomenon as either dark/scary/bad/evil black OR if we identify with the eternal truth, which is that all is always light, no matter how it may appear, then we see the “black hole” as bright/luminous/light and even love, because when matter/form or manifest creation has fulfilled its purpose and needs to be recycled in order for new creation to be “rebirthed” then the “black” or “light whole” consumes old forms in order to renew life! So yes black wholes exist for those who fear physical death and returning to the formless and yes light spaces exist for those who identify with their ultimate immortality and so view “death” as a deep process of transformation and transfiguration and so ultimately a process of light! So it is all really perspective, and our own unique personal perspectives on this mirror our own perspectives on our perspective of life and death. In brief, if we fear death of our mortal form, we view nothingness or empty space as a scary black whole. If we identify with our immortality beyond the limitation of our mortal forms, then we see warm, loving “sources of immense light!” This is all SO PLUTONIAN again, btw… It is amazing what is happening since humanity has stared into “The Heart of Pluto beneath his frozen surface” through satellite images.. I believe we are finally seeing Pluto as loving being that he has always been, now finally having seen his heart!.. Probably when more and more of us awaken to the awareness that Pluto’s Darkness is simply a deep initiation into finding the light, the less we would see “Black Wholes” and the more we would see, as UBQW sees, ” Sources of immense light!”
      Thank you UBQW for your lesson today, and thank you for the Luminous Light that you are! I enjoyed our teatime together today! 😉

    2. All I know ,is that everything is alive living electromagnetic consciousness, no thing is inanimate, Prana, the life force,(which looks like spermatasoa ,in a petri dish, )was told every thought, is a fertile intention and the egg, is the sea of consciousness ,it swims in.At so called death ,we explode like a super nova, go down a, tunnel/ black hole/wormhole ,to the egg/light/360%/Void/0,to another part of the metaphoricle body,where we dump and ejaculate our load of that incarnations experience, to impregnate another REALITY, Sparks/sparkles on the sea ,waves to particles ,life to death ,death to life ,on the ocean , of all en- compassing unconditionally loving consciousness, which having looked at itself intimately, sinks back down, into the androgenous ocean of 0neness,that cross fertilizes itself endlessly.
      There is no death, all energy is recyled,to add to the grid ,which vastly spirals round on itself ,in mirrored umbilicus, to other dimensions/states of vibrating consciousness, it is eternal/infinite/never ending.

    3. gamma rays are inviolet, the end of our limited spectrum, but nearer to the higher octaves. from infra red,radio waves ,going backwards in time the root earth chakra ,to the violet/white crown chakra. the blue shift,coming towards us,Some of the so called star light we see ,was there transmiting ,before the earth was born ,its all preincarnationally preencoded, for info to hit us at a certain time

    4. So if i understand this post correctly…we fuck our way into the next world? lol

      “At so called death ,we explode like a super nova, go down a, tunnel/ black hole/wormhole ,to the egg/light/360%/Void/0,to another part of the metaphoricle body,where we dump and ejaculate our load of that incarnations experience, to impregnate another REALITY, Sparks/sparkles on the sea ,waves to particles ,life to death ,death to life ,on the ocean , of all en- compassing unconditionally loving consciousness, which having looked at itself intimately, sinks back down, into the androgenous ocean of 0neness,that cross fertilizes itself endlessly”

  85. Roberto – thanks for the healing sounds link. I will definitely be spending time there.I am just now letting music into my life again- i needed a very long period of reclusive silence. All these women so focused on your chart ha ha. I think that is wonderful. I can definitely see that Neptune on your ASC. You put out a lot of compassion.

  86. WOW ANNA!

    That is one of the most beautiful things I have read!
    I enjoy and connect with the stream of consciousness from which that awareness is emanating in you.. Beautiful that you connect so intimately with Source to be able to touch such sublime wisdom. The truth that is expressed through you emanates from a deep place of peace, I can feel it as I read your words and the space between them. It is a blissful state of being that is conscious of its Divine nature, shapeless, boundless, infinite, immortal and simply witnessing its self in love as it expresses its Divinity through an eternal dance of an infinite spectrum of light… Thank you for taking me to that sacred space today.. Blessings..

  87. Thanks for all your Pluto input on this website. I have a wide Pluto trine Ascendent and got involved with a tight Pluto conjunct Ascendent late last year. Also our synastry chart has a tight Pluto conjunct Ascendent. It has been quite an experience. Very transformational.

    Also transit Pluto has been dancing all over my Sun, Ascendent, and Jupiter in conjunction or opposition pretty much non stop for the last 5 years.

    Definitely a time for both looking around me, looking deep within, and learning to be ultra sensitive to toxicity as well as learning to defend myself from it.

    I think have read and re-read all the Pluto posts here in my search for understanding and awareness. They have been very helpful, leading to insights and adding pieces to the puzzle.

    Keep up the good work!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *