Moon Square/Opposite Saturn ~ Trapped Kid

Moon square or opposition Saturn grows up quickly, therefore deep inside Saturn’s armour is a very soft-centred, needy child. The subject is loathed to show this very fragile side of their character, so most of the time they appear very strong, capable and most of all independent. The suppressed needs will very often come out as incapacitating illness or depression, that way they get the care they feel they don’t deserve to ask for.

The native may have experienced their parents as quite critical, so this is what stops them from expressing their more needy emotions. They find it hard to be spontaneous, but are excellent planners. The opposition especially tends to attract wayward and irresponsible partners that they have to parent OR conversely, these subjects can attract older and parental mates that take on all the responsibility. If their mate is the boss then, the Moon square Saturn may play the rebellious child.

The main issue with Moon square or opposition Saturn is the premature requirement to be self-sufficient. The mother may have been ill or unavailable, so that the child had to parent themselves or younger siblings. Another manifestation of this aspect would be expressing nurturing in a more masculine fashion, practical, rather than emotional support. Growing up may have been very spartan, the home could be a place of work and have a traditional solid feel about it.

Armoured Protection

However the emotional void might leave the child desperately needy and clingy in relationships, if they can bring themselves even to admit it. The inner needy child is most likely to come out when drunk or through illness. The aspect may be cold comfort, but its more positive side is that it will be reliable, generally financially solvent and always there for practical support. Don’t expect a hug, but Moon square Saturn will clear up your vomit!

Moon square or opposite Saturn is serious about getting ahead and the mother may have instilled this driving ambition in the child at a very young age. The mother will have had very high standards (and maybe been a tad too critical) so that the child is continually striving to better itself. Those who don’t know the subject well may accuse them of being stuck-up or a snob, though usually, these folk don’t actually take themselves that seriously. What they do have a need to be respected and admired.  The Moon rules habits while Saturn is structure and organisation, therefore these subjects have great endurance and self-discipline.

Moon square or opposite Saturn’s tastes are classic and they have great elegance and poise. Family is very important to them and they will work their hardest while sacrificing selfish desires. Responsibilities and duty are taken earnestly, but they may also care a little too much about their status. Any young dissenters are given an abrupt clip around the ear if their antics should degrade the family’s reputation. Moon opposite Saturn especially will defend their home and family vehemently. All this strict behaviour does not mean that these folk are sticks in the mud. Far from it! They often have a great dry sense of humour and an acerbic wit. Even when they are scolding you they will have a twinkle in their eye.

Moon/Saturn ~ Hard Aspects

Moon Opposite Saturn

Bruce Lee is a good example of the focused self-discipline inherent in this aspect, he also shows the ambition that excels in so many areas. Lee was an actor, film director and producer, screenwriter and philosopher as well as a martial arts instructor. His father was a famous Cantonese Opera and film actor while his mother carried the Saturn status of coming from one of the wealthiest and most powerful families in Hong Kong.

Lee was raised therefore within a very privileged background, but the neighbourhood he grow up in was very crowded so he did get involved in local gang street fights. This was when his family decided he should be trained in the martial arts. Lee once got mad at a challenger who broke into his home (Moon) “He [Bruce] says ‘he gets the idea, this guy, to come and invade my home, my own private home, invade it and challenge me.’ He said he got so mad that he gave the hardest kick he ever gave anyone in his life.” [1]

Nancy Mitford (07’), Mary Cassatt (17’), Derek Jacobi (19’), Heinrich Caro (22’), Angel Resendiz (28’), Jack Nicholson (29’), Irene Cara, Bruce Lee, Yehudi Menuhin, George Michael, Holly Johnson, Robert Redford, Pebbles Santiago, Frances Newton, Lauren Bacall, Eddie Fisher, Pattie Boyd.

Moon Square Saturn

Marilyn Monroe is a very good example of how much of a paradox this aspect can be. Her childbearing hips were anything but spartan, but they were no way maternal either. Marilyn is a good example of the “Trapped Child” that astrologer Sue Tompkins refers to in her aspect book. [1] Of course Marilyn had no proper mothering from her mentally ill mother and grew up in various foster homes. Her femininity is also strange, on screen she radiated sex, but it was such over-the-top glamour. This unreality begs the question of wether she was truly comfortable with her sexuality. The real Norma Jean was known to ‘switch-on’ Marilyn for her fans, which suggests Saturnian detachment. Marilyn shows all the vulnerability of this aspect and also the great need to conform and be accepted as a sexy, glamorous female.

Martin Sheen (03’), Lulu (16’), Kate Middleton (20’), Dorothy Parker (26’), Cilla Black, Michael J Fox, Judy Garland, Heinrich Himmler, Glenda Jackson, Chaka Khan, Karen Silkwood, Aaron Spelling, Joan Collins, Franz Shubert, Winona Ryder, Madeleine McCann, Dora Maar, George Grosz, Bruce Willis/Demi Moore Davison.

Moon/Saturn Aspects

 Moon conjunct/quincunx Saturn • Moon square/opposite Saturn • Moon trine Saturn

1. Sue Tompkins. Aspects In Astrology. Pg 142.

40 thoughts on “Moon Square/Opposite Saturn ~ Trapped Kid

  1. Thanks Marina, this was in my last solar return by about half a degree. Everything is so spot on, illness, needy, depression. Looking forward to my next solar return that’s for sure. But reading this I can see how I can learn from the experience.

  2. Mine is conj. Moon in 5th almost 6th and Sat. in 6th, almost 5th. Both in Sagg. 5° away from the ecotone zone.

    My son´s quincux… Mhhh! Moon on 6th. Cancer. Saturn on 1st. Aquarius.

    (this horrible feeling of being a “bad” -fool and crazy, yes- mother…)

    R.

  3. I was born with a tight Leo Moon/jupiter conjunction in the 5th squaring Saturn in Scorpio. I had a very cold and abusive mother, and this article is very correct. Interestingly, the Moon/Jupiter conjunct led me to heal my chronic asthma over 15 years ago through learning whole foods, natural cooking. Moon/Jupiter has given me an instinct for healing, especially through whole foods, which helped save my life.

    I believe Grace Kelly also was born with a Moon/Saturn square or conjunction.

  4. I have Moon Square Saturn in my natal chart. I had to grow up too quickly, or perhaps another way to put it is that I didn’t really have a childhood. I have a co-dependent relationship with my mother who has always been very needy and I tend to (s)mother her. She was orphaned when she was very young and has had a tragic life. As an adult, she had an arranged marriage with a narcissistic jerk (my father) who tortured her emotionally for forty years until they separated with my help and insistence. I love my mother as she’s the most exceptional person I’ve ever met and although its sometimes hard to admit it, I’m aware that our relationship is unhealthy. We seem to be magnets that can’t break away from each other and often the universe dictates circumstances that make it it even more difficult. I have to say that I’ve spent my whole life struggling with depression.

    I started this month very upbeat but in the last few days I’ve been overcome with intense depressive feelings. After reading Marina’s post about the upcoming “barking mad” July New Moon that has Moon Square Saturn on Hekate, my feelings make a little more sense now.

    Astrology is so amazing. Thanks Marina and Jamie for the work that you do.

    1. I can relate with those feelings too, Helen. My mother was an orphan since she was three of age, from both parents, all of a suden. But she was a fiercy and livlely dragon (chinese sign and gemini; very clever also).

      When I remember the kind of inner deaths I had to go through to break this of being mothering my mom and my ill sister (who died in my arms), I SURE know what you mean. Deeply.

      And now, making no mess over those feelings that come over and over (lady boss of mine). And to leave them in the past, in order to live my present… hard for me. But trying.

      I spoke seriously with my grandparents (etherically), and told them that they should not have wanted to have so many ranchs (my grand father brought milk processes to Mexico and made a fortune; spaniard he was… at 33 he died). That they should have taken care of their SEVEN children (my mother being the fifth).That they should not leave all those black holes in every bodies soul just for being greedy or trying to please family back in Spain!

      And I have hard times -right now and with children (22 and 18)- to stand on my own solid feet. But I try and try. Mother, she just was absent, never there, in her own virtual world. I sometimes felt as being paralyzed my self (corporal therapy)or not having feet at all! (I always stumbled and walked nervously -even with energized steps- as my ankles would not hold me at all. Healthy, strong and lively, though somehow impaired, living in the clouds and always critisizing my self).

      May I also thank again Marina and Jamie!

      R.

  5. Much of this is spot on, Marina. The rest is ameliorated by my Rising sign being in Cancer! So I am very touchy feely and give the best hugs. But I am very self critical, and mostly unaware of it until later. I have Saturn in Virgo, and have much difficulty with self nurture. And I have to monitor my negative thoughts carefully (usually don’t succeed!) because they have such a strong effect on my body and health!

  6. Spot on indeed!
    I have this natal aspect 1degrees orb. I have always been told by mom that I was always independent as a child (have the heart & life line separated on my palms if you need to compare palmistry to astrology) but I love the feeling when i get a nice big hug… (secret’s out)… I must say that I act very childish when i am sick … i have noticed that i act very motherly when i am drunk with my “are you doing ok?”, “do you need something to eat?”, “hope you are feeling well?”. My mom is very motherly and this comes out in this form… i guess … thanks for the explanation! 🙂
    I understand this about myself now quiet well! 😀

  7. I’ve read that although it was widely thought that Marilyn Monroe’s mother was mentally ill, she actually was a victim of horrid job conditions. She was a film editor and was always cutting and gluing film {splicing}…the glue was nasty and her work space was unventilated. I believe I read that in a great book called “Crypt 33”, a bio on Marilyn.
    And her mother did nurture Marilyn as much as she could, unfortunately she was away at her job a lot and was very poor. She tried to be a mother but her luck was horrible. She kept having to resort to putting Marilyn in other people’s care / or the decision was sometimes made for her.
    That poor woman tried to rent a house, she had a piano, she worked hard and tried to support her daughter and herself {Marilyn’s rotten father deserted them}. Marilyn’s mother was very ill but not mentally, although the glue fumes did affect her mind.
    She loved her daughter and it was all tragic. But the basic Moon square Saturn message was still true…her mother basically wasn’t there, but not for lack of trying.

    1. Hello, Lori! I am sooooo very glad that you pointed these facts out about Marilyn’s mother. What I would like to add to this ‘Moon square Saturn’ aspect discussion is that it is almost impossible for women and their children to have solid, loving bonds due to the negative influence of misogynistic and patriarchal systems put in place on Earth.

      Having experienced 4 years of separation from my children due to poverty AND a very corrupt “judicial” system that favors men I can attest to the complete and utter destructive force of such a misogynistic world; Children suffer egregiously as well as mothers!
      The world we continue to support is the cause of such harsh astrological aspects and it really does not have to be this way.

      I feel deeply for all women who must abandon their parental obligations of emotional nurturance in favor of material support of their children. It is a difficult balance to strike when there is only one parent present emotionally or physically.
      I feel it is time for Astrological interpretation to fit the actual crime/event. Saturn is the father figure, the judge if you will, Moon the mother so it seems that the square between these two planets would better be defined as ‘Father/Judge/Authority against Mother’ ( it IS a patriarchal world designed around the infantile and selfish needs of men, is it not? )
      I have LIVED this particular energy and one of my sons has this aspect so I can verify that it is causes mistrust between the child and the maternal parent. What it does not cause is the mistrust between the ‘Saturn’ figure and the child thus lending support to the entrenched hierarchal structure, and, socially aberrant behaviors that keep this viciousness circling itself.
      It is past time to delineate these aspects for what they really represent.

      Thanks for educating us on the story behind Marilyn’s seemingly, maternally neglected childhood, Lorri. It was much appreciated.

  8. So…Kate Middleton has Moon square Saturn ? Odd but so does Kate’s baby son, George. Now that’s an odd bit of info,considering what it could mean.
    On the whole I hate to say, the baby’s chart is really not a good one. In so many ways…Saturn in Scorpio, Venus opposing Neptune, Venus sesqui Uranus is not so good but I won’t come right out with that and say what it means. You could figure it out with enough research. Mars square Uranus…very dangerous,violent aspect in fact President Kennedy had that. So, it can mean frightening things. All in all, with inflexible Scorpio rising and Uranus in the 4th house {will he refuse to be King ? run away from his own country ?}, Mars opposes Pluto in his chart…good God, that often means criminal tendencies. I didn’t feel good about the chart of little George. So…we all should wish him luck anyway. I do. I hope none of the worst twists up. Let’s hope he just gets the positive side {?} of the astrology……in any event this kid could turn his parent’s hair white I would guess.

  9. I have moon sq saturn in my natal chart. moon in libra at 11 degs, and saturn in capricorn at 11 deg’s. When I was born, my grandfather went into my mothers recovery room and expressed his disgust at her for having had another daughter, guess he thought she was the one to blame. I was daughter # 3. Mom was a loving cancer, lots of cookies and hugs, but not many nutricious meals. We lacked basic care. I never felt like my parents provided for us. Dad had a grand trine in fire, and a violent temper. I had my share of bloody noses. With Neptune in my 7th, I havent picked the right partners. Ive been with many who were needy and not self sufficient. So I played the martar role for most of my life. When transiting Uranus went into an opposition to my natal sun, I changed – I went thru this spiritual awakening and started to study Astrology. Living with moon square Saturn hasnt been easy. Ive never felt loved, deeply loved. If there is a room full of people laughing, I would be the one in the corner, not getting the joke and not laughing. I always have felt that no one gives a shit about me – the lonely woman out in the world…..

    1. Hi Karen. I also have a moon sq. saturn – Virgo moon (conjunct a Virgo Sun & Mars) in the 4th house all square a Sagittarius saturn-uranus conjunction in the 7th house. Sorry to read about the tough stuff you had to endure while growing up. I had to endure some similar stuff, but I guess not as bad externally. My parents were loving to me in the sense that they sacrificed a lot for me and wanted to give me the best of everything (I’m an only child), but emotionally I perceived them as being quite cold. They fought a lot when I was younger, and so I felt quite uncomfortable and unsafe emotionally. My mom could be quite emotionaly unstable/excitable (she has a moon conjunct uranus in Leo), and so I didn’t feel emotionally at-ease with her or really emotionally nourished by her. I.e. sometimes she would get mad at me (or my dad), and wouldn’t talk to the offender for several days. So I could sense that she was emotionally immature and I felt quite insecure from that.
      I think with this Moon sq. Saturn aspect, it makes us feel like we have to be deserving of love or affection, and so we have trust issues with our relations, making it hard to get close. My parents had very high expectations for me, so I did my best to fulfill them (chief Virgo qualities here), and I pretty much suppressed my own individuality just to be a ‘good kid’ – i.e. never rebelled, was outwardly nice and repressed my anger, etc. But I felt very shallow and unfulfilled on the inside – I never allowed myself to have close friends, because I didn’t know how to be mature in my relationships.
      Granted, I’m not saying it’s all my parents fault. I’m sure they did the best they could. I believe in karma, and I intuitively feel that I created these aspects myself in past lives; I find that when you can accept responsibility for it, they make it much easier to overcome.
      I learned later that keeping an outer facade, for fear of experiencing emotionally difficult situations, only stifles the feelings and keeps them shallow. I also am learning that emotional disagreements or conflicts don’t necessary mean lack of love- instead, they can actually deepen the trust between people if they are overcome maturely. But it also means that you have to own up to your feelings, and not allow another person’s abuse of them to devalue your self-worth.
      In other words, we need to learn to love and accept ourselves unconditionally, and learn to emotionally support ourselves, before we can get close to another. Because otherwise, we will find ourselves becoming emotionally dependent on them, not allowing them to be their true selves or express their independence (or our own). As far as feeling that nobody cares for you, I feel that we should simply care for ourselves first, and not take others’ reactions too personally. So even if it feels that nobody loves us, it doesn’t mean that we are unworthy of love, because we love ourselves. We have to be and accept our own emotional authority. At the end of the day I think it is about self-worth; for me I found connecting to a higher power to be particularly helpful. Hope this helps.

    2. Rush, that was perfectly profound! This is exactly what one must learn to do; Love one’s self.

      In my experience with my mother I was literally nearly stomped to death. She told me this, ” Just because I had you does not mean that I have to love you.” She called me “whore”, “slut” and “bitch” since a very young age and even pulled a knife on me and told me, ” I could kill you!”

      My childhood was extremely painful and I think it appropriate to use the word “terrorist” and mother synonymously in my particular case. ( I have attached my Birth Chart to illustrate as evidence, lol. )
      What I learned from this life experience is just what you learned and posted above; One has to learn to be the sole provider of self love and acceptance.
      I learned this and am a much happier and at peace individual for this experience.

      My mother’s response to being neglected and abandoned by her father, given up as an infant to an orphanage in upstate New York, shuttled back and forth between foster parents, her own alcoholic mother and then finally adopted by a single woman from Franklin, TN, was to create a wound so deep to her psyche that she forever saw everyone as a threat to her personal survival.

      I also understand, Rush, that most women do not have autonomy in a patriarchal world so this causes emotional, mental, spiritual, as well as a physical, discomfort. I saw that my mother acclimated herself to misogyny in order to survive and thrive. This is a very complex issue that must be dealt with if we are to eradicate these hard aspects of Moon Square Saturn. It is in the best interest of our creations; Children.

      Having had this experience led me, as well, to the ancient science of Astrology and what I learned through this valuable tool is that we are each powerful beings with the choice to create negative or positive experiences.
      I choose to create something beautiful for everyone. 🙂

      It is abundantly evident, Rush, that you have become an Alchemist! You have found the Emerald Tablet.
      The world is better place for your diligent work.

    3. Jamie , i’m glad you feeling much better .
      Could you please confirm to me that whatever Illuminati exist or not ? Yes or No ?

    4. Not sure what you mean, arian decan 2. This question seems unrelated to my post and rather obtuse.

  10. Thanks for your insight Marina. I have this moon square Saturn natal aspect. My relationship between my mum and I has always been strained. Till date, I only see her if I have no choice. When that happens, it’s my husband entertaining her while I stare blankly into nothingness. My mother is one who never stops talking-blabbering about her latest accomplishment/offering unsolicited advice for everything/dissing about how disorganised her sis is and the list goes on. She is an utter living hell to me. I like nothing better than to shut her up If I could. I have utterly no respect for her as a person. Granted, she may not have a perfect childhood (she is 3rd out of 5 kids) and she probably married to have a better life but alas, she made all the wrong choices and took them out on me. That’s how I see it. She has never taken time to communicate properly with me. Never made me feel wanted and accepted. To make matters worse, I was a very timid, inhibited and shy girl who badly needed some gentle guidance. Instead, I was constantly criticised and corrected by her. Nothing I did ever made her feel good. She was just a very cruel, insensitive, impatient and vain woman who needed constant flattering and she never hesitated to put me down. For almost 24 years, I lived in fear under her thumb. My self-esteem was non-existent and I got bullied often. I have a younger brother and he received nothing of the above treatment. Reason being, he is more intelligent, knows how to boot-lick and he had always been an easy baby and child to raise. Always smiley. The pride and joy of my mother. I, a fussy child who never smiled, was just an awkward, dull and dumb girl who unfortunately, did not know how to flatter my mother. I really believe that if I was not the first born, I would probably not be born considering how unavailable and unreliable my dad was to my mum. In one of their numerous heated quarrels, my dad even flung a knife at her. Instead of calling it quits (it would have been better for me),they continued living together-estranged from each other. My dad, who kept to himself most of the time, did not do me any justice too. I thought he could relieve a bit of my bitterness towards my mum but unfortunately, his life was also a mess. Incurred large debts from his company set up together with his 2 working partners with one died and the other whom I till now have no idea why was unable to split the debt with my dad. My dad refused to come clean with his family with the mess he had landed us in. In the end, this desperate man sold the house to clear part of the debt and now, he keeps to himself and continues with his life as if it’s just one of those minor life hipcups for him. No explanation and no apologies whatsoever. Selfish and irresponsible is what you can call it. Yes, that more or less summed up about my tormented childhood. Sadly, I too, married in haste to flee from my family. I have lots of ups and downs too in my marriage-I ended up with a father-in-law who is just like a clone of my mother-domineering, arrogant, vain, self-absorbed and insensitive. It did not help that my husband is quite close with his parents, so more or less I can’t avoid meeting them. However, after the most recent meltdown with my husband, we agreed that I am not joining anymore fortnightly meal (used to be weekly for the past 10 years or so) with my in-laws anymore. I would just attend all the birthdays and major holidays, which was around 11 times a year or thereabouts. I know that if I choose to completely shut off from my in-laws, I would end up hurting myself and may eventually be divorced. That would make me in the same league as my mum. Don’t want that.
    Incidentally, she blew up at me for ‘abandoning’ her just recently. I disagreed to accompany her to a neighbour’s wedding as my brother had to bail out last minute. Talking about an impending transiting moon in taurus squaring my leo in Saturn…I am bracing myself for more ‘storms’ ahead. I am so done with this woman, this clown, seriously.

  11. From my own experience, this may increasingly be known as the working mother aspect where mother was working, and the child felt abandoned as a result. A few people I know who have a close relationship with their mother have this aspect. All the mothers worked when they were small and there may have been conflict between parents (Moon – mother, Saturn – father).

    Interesting to note the new Prince George of Cambridge has this aspect, as does Duchess Kate and I’m not sure that either mother is ill or unloving.

    Modern interpretations of aspects may need to take into account the changing role of mothers in today’s society.

    1. Yes I think you might be right there. I have read Robert hands interpretation of Moon/Uranus (Not to dis Robert Hand because that book is a bible), and thought it was a little harsh on Moon/Uranians. My daughter has Moon conjunct Uranus almost exact (In Pisces tho) and we are ridiculously close. But I am of course an astrologer mother! The traditional interpretations do need updating, the same goes for the fixed stars. The experience of an aspect is through the eyes of the person who has it so yes, the Moon/Saturn person will experience their mother as abandoning, or cold, but the mother may not be that at all. Just busy! Or in the case of Uranus/Moon she will be eccentric, modern and exciting rather than distant.

  12. I have a wide Moon /Saturn in Cancer. My mum was very practically kind and good cook but do not remember a cuddle. When I hugged her near the end of her life she said. “Why are you doing that. i am not ill” She could be helliva fun tho when the mood took her. We did not live in same country for a long time
    My daughter has Moon Leo. sq Scorpio Saturn. We enjoy some parts of each other and share a skill. She gets annoyed by my health advice altho SHE ha sHygeia in and I in 10.. I fi nd her n her partner a bit cold with their Scorpio Moons. But they are clever and beautiful n and sensible so never mind.

  13. Interesting take. I have this but don’t see my mom in a negative way. She worked when I was growing up and I remember missing her lots and my parents were divorced. Lots of love from her but I wanted her to be at home more and work less. Guess it depends on other aspects.

    1. I read somewhere that Steven Spielberg, Coco Chanel and Leonardo Di Caprio have this. I think their parents were all divorced.

  14. I suffered from a very abusive stepmother as a young boy. I have done her chart and seen her Mars in opposition to my moon and square to my saturn. I was thus very susceptible to being hurt by her. Today I work with women in a restaurant and there is more than one who seemingly have it in for me. I am a threat to them in some way, I think, somewhat in the same way my stepmother sees me as competition for my father’s affection.

    This is rightfully known as a depressing aspect.

    A crowning aspect in my chart – 6th house scorpio moon conj. Pluto and 9th house saturn. My ascendant is Cancer…the Saturn/Moon duality plays out in more than one area, see?

  15. My husband had moon pisces sq. Saturn in gemini. Your article describes him to a tee. He drank heavily in early years but was a high functioning Attorney. He had three bouts of cancers…went through medical procudures for 11 years and passed away dec 8, 2014 of leukemia from a previous chemo treatment. He was strong, sturdy and reliable but blocked emotions. He had them but his love was shown through duty.

  16. I have SA/MO Ar/Ca, 7 deg. wide but with me being a triple Cander I felt it to the N’th degree.
    My mother was mentally challenged, working all the time, single mum, used to leave me on my own in a flat from the age of 3. All day long. So my primary relationship was with books and it took me decades to put myself together. Parents divorced at 2.5yrs (Saturn cycle) and I developed into a workaholic, ambitious and emotionally cut off. I’d say Marina is right – I experienced my mother as Hitler, border line abusive personality, and grew up never having a memory of playing, laughing or doing anything with my mother. As a result, I decided not to have children. I’m happiest now then I have ever been in my whole life but it took decades of hard personal development work.

  17. I’m a Capricorn and I have this with a 4th hs Saturn in early Pisces sq a late Scorpio Moon in the 1st. For the first two years of my Life my Piscean mother was suffering from a bad case of postnatal depression, which probably had something to do with Saturn transiting her early Pisces Moon, then hitting Chiron in Pisces, then hitting her late Pisces Sun, which took about 2 years. I suspect my inability to recognize and decipher women’s positive feelings dates back to this time, when my mother was not exactly in a smiling mood and I was supposed to learn to read faces. Now, 50 years later, my mother still accuses me for her depression. I do not express my needs, nor do I expect to have them met. Not surprisingly, my needs, especially the emotional ones, are not met. Frankly, I don’t really even know how to express my needs and even if I did, I’d expect either rejection or ridicule in return. The women in my life have turned cold, sooner or later, usually sooner. There is no female comfort in my life. There is actually very little comfort of any kind in my life. My home is literally cold, because it has no heating. Well, it doesn’t really have walls either, since it’s a tent. Yes, I’m homeless. I don’t mind if my woman is a few years older, as long as I have one. Well, I don’t have one, I rarely do, but if I had one, I wouldn’t care about her age. I’m really low maintenance. Life is very sad, bleak and void of hope.

    On the other hand, if you need somebody to take some hits for you, I’m your man. I’ll defend pretty much anybody and my life sucks so bad I don’t care if I die in the process, which makes me the worst possible opponent for just about any goon. I care about getting the job done, whatever it may be. I can endure more discomfort than most people can imagine. I can be my own parent. People who come from crappy families can enjoy my special presence. I can be a surrogate Daddy, if yours sucks. My parenting advice is very practical.

  18. My moon and sun in Pisces are both square Saturn, and Saturn is in my first house in Sagittarius. My mother was a compete bitch to me growing up. Her Saturn in Pisces falls on my sun and moon, opposing them, and her Saturn squares mine. I always felt she was just a wet blanket who always disapproved of me. From the time I was 5, I was abused off and on. She started fights with me all the time, ending up in me crying in a heap on the floor. I puzzle over whether I cause people to treat me badly or people just treat me badly because the don’t like me. I have never wanted children because I feel so hurt from my own childhood and have always doubted if I could even be a good parent. I have about a billion self-esteem issues.

    1. I would like to address the issue of family dysfunction as it seems to be the ‘canary in the coal mine’.

      Having suffered tremendous emotional and physical abuse ( I am sure there are worse stories than mine, though ) at the hands and mouth of my mother and father I became a self abuser. I abused my body by not setting personal boundaries with others. I abused my body with alcohol. I entered into relationships with drug users, narcissists, misogynists and chauvinists. Feeling repulsed by, not only my own behaviors, but the behaviors of others, I needed to understand what is the root cause of such social dis eases.
      What I found to be the root cause of ALL social dysfunction are the social institutions themselves. Since all societies are patriarchal and misogynistic in nature then it is relatively correct to state that those who are marginalized and literally emotionally and physically abused ( women and children are the most marginalized in all societies as they have no voice in policy and the structuring of societies ) develop coping mechanisms and behaviors that mirror their environment.
      I began studying social illness along side of Astrology in 2001 and it is beyond evident that we are all suffering some degree of Stockholm Syndrome, so, our parents are struggling with a myriad of mental, emotional and physical illnesses that are difficult to address without in depth study of the greater environment we all live in.
      My mother was given up to an orphanage at birth. The Nuns at the catholic orphanage in upstate New York were abusive. They made children eat their own vomit, beat them with rubber hoses and made them take cold baths for punishment. What can one expect of a child raised in such terror and meanness? I expect, if the soul is not yet fully evolved into a loving being, then this child would become as a reflection of it’s environment.

      We are living in a very sick world devised by very sick souls and a loving being trying to live in such oppressive and mean circumstances ( depravations of all kind ) usually has very little direction ( besides the internal compass we are born with ,as, well as help from those who have passed over to the other side ) or influence from healthy souls who are wise and loving. There are those in powerful positions who spend massive resources in thwarting and subverting our internal guidance and eternal wisdoms.

      My mother and father, like all of our parents….as we are…..are raised in a system of meanness and lies. Once we get to the root of all social disease we can begin to build an environment of health for ALL humans trying to BE. Until then we will create more victims and scapegoats without ever resolving the root cause.

      Cathy, your mother….my mother and father…..are all emotionally and mentally ill. To some degree, we all are and it is imperative that you continue to dig deep for the root cause of your family issues. The microcosm of the family is deeply affected ( if not completely shaped ) by the Macrocosm.

      I hope that this explanation helps.

    2. Moon in libra in 6th at 11 deg square saturn in cap in 9th at 11 deg. I was a disapointment to many when I was born because I wasnt a boy. After I was born my mom had a nervous breakdown. My grandfather went into moms recovery room and told her how mad he was for having had another girl and it was all her fault. I cried a lot as a newborn until they changed my formula, mom didnt breast feed. Ive been told that Im healing past generations of neglect, as my mother was neglected as a child. Her mother was a drunk virgo and sent her kids off to be wards of the state where my mother was treated poorly. Im not the huggy type of person. And everything written above about moon sq saturn is right on for me. I never got a degree with saturn in my 9th being restrive and limiting. I do have self esteem issues and dont even know what it means when people talk about thier inner child. I did have to grow up fast and left the house feeling like I knew absolutly nothing of the world as my father (saturn) didnt teach me shit (9th house). Dad was abusive. Mom was full of hugs and kisses and cookies, but not many nutricious meals. I was malnurished as a child. Its hard for me to laugh, and usually I feel like no one gives a shit about me.

  19. You hit the nail on the head when you mention Stockholm Syndrome, Venus. I have moon, north node square Saturn in cappy and a wider square with venus square Saturn all in libra. And I have nothing in my 7th house. I live with my mom, who by the way never did anything with me. She left my father and 5 of us kids and I had to cook, clean and keep after my brothers and dad as my sister did nothing. My sister has been contentious my whole life, picking on me and finally realized I had to get her out and put up a boundary
    around myself when it comes to her. My mom, well, I am still trying to get her approval I guess, but I am currently not working and a few years back took care of my father who was going thru Chemo and radiation and very sick, and stuck again with the duties, only to be treated like a slave and verbally abused, and a brother (libra) who my father told me he was leaving everything to. I am so fed up and wonder how I ever got to be in this situation and what I did ever to deserve being treated this way. I was married to a woman hater but he and I never had kids, I ended up being his Mom, taking care of his financial issues he never told me about, and ended up back with my mom, going right back from the fire into the frying pan. I am just now looking up my 2nd house Uranus in leo and have a hard time wanting to hold a day job which explains the financial ups and downs. With all of the creative talents in my 5th house full of goodies, it seems so sad to not at least have a relationship with 3 planets in libra, 3 in scopio. But I have been wanting to find someone and get out of this house once and for all, but you nailed it with our parents having some mental illness and the Stockholm syndrome.

    1. Mercury retrograde, we are all victims of Stockholm Syndrome to varying degrees. We are captives of a monolithic program of social engineering. This social structure is called a “value system”. The question, though, is what value does it hold for the most vulnerable in our societies? Anyone can see that our societies hold no intrinsic value for children and their mothers.
      Having my Venus in a retrograde motion at birth means that I come to this planet with a different “value system”….a value system that is diametrically opposed to the misogynistic one we have had for millennia.
      You are suffering from the ramifications of living a forced existence that causes you to doubt your inner wisdoms. We all suffer the same no doubt.
      In a truly balanced world with the spiritual health and well being of the individual as preeminent over all other concerns your distress would be nonexistent. But, in a misogynistic “value system” ( call it a boys club if you will ) those needs are not even addressed much less considered. What can one do in such a forced and restricted environment? We either break or rise ( somehow ) above the environment.

      You are not sentenced to ‘prison’ time, MR, unless you want to serve. The deeper question you must ask yourself is what is it that you are ‘serving’? Does it serve the good of your father to allow him to verbally accost you while you serve him? Not in the least. Your service seems to be unwelcome to him and causes him to act in ways that destroy his own spiritual matter. I would leave him to heal himself. He has the power. He refuses to use it, and, instead, uses your energy as any ‘vampire’.
      Your other family members are also struggling with emotional and mental issues in such a vicious environment…remember, we all live in the same environment and all struggle with these same issues….so, we all must find our way out of this man-made hell.
      Astrology has not been used for it’s true intent and full spiritual benefit to mankind. It has, instead, been utilized for monetary gain and thus, those who ply this trade, lead many down a dead end.
      What I am saying is that we must divest ourselves of the diseased societies and their contrived institutions that have no meaning to a spiritual being. This requires introspection ( finding your true self and purpose ), study of Astrology, and, most of all, to remove yourself from social influences that would harm you. ( That is pretty much everything unfortunately ). We are being taught to value our personal opinions, monetary status, and material gain. We are becoming as entitled and self indulgent beings…a mirror image of those who contrive our societies….all the while being held as captives.

      Your birth map is probably very fascinating and holds the key to becoming a gift ( as we are all intended to be ) to this world. You intimated that you have 5th House planets and those can help you to understand the gifts that you have already developed in prior lifetimes and needed to share in this one.
      Start small, MR….one step at a time.

      If you would like a bit of help in looking at your Chart I don’t mind helping.

      VR

  20. I’ve been reading Betty Lumsted’s aspect interpretations and she writes this about Moon square Saturn which I gotta say is more on the mark for me as my mom totally smothers and loves me and my parents are split:
    The father of this person definitely thwarted the mothers personal expression. He may have been the kind of person who took delight in restricting and limiting the female. This person, in his early years, sees that mothers don’t have a chance to do what they want to do, can’t pursue anything that interests them without being harassed by fathers. The subtle psychological game going on between parents is not lost on the child. The father often thwarts the child as well as Mom…

  21. It feels so great to read what intelligent people with different backgrounds and tough planetary aspects commented here. Unfortunately I cannot add anything for this topic as my Moon is not in square with my Saturn but in a strange way I know and can feel what it means.
    My Saturn in Cancer conjuncts my ASC and has no other aspects and my Moon is in the 8th house forms a trine to Pluto, a sextil to Neptun and a week square to my stellium (Venus, Mars, Uranus in Libra, Sun and Mercury in Scorpio at the corner of the 5th House). Without any planets in earth signs it is really takes an effort to walk this Earth which feels kind of an experiment’s scene… 🙂

  22. Greetings,
    I have been reading all the comments here. I resonate with all that is being talked about.
    I have always been interested in how astrology can guide a person through life.
    How would I find my true chart profile? I seriously need some help finding things out about myself so I can start making proper decisions ( at the age of 50 ).
    I am trying to finally make a memorable life, even though my health deters some things from coming to fruition.
    I am desperate to find things that work for me as I have NO ONE else in my life that cares at all. Please lead me in a direction so I can get started living the stars and planets that I am?
    Thank you for anything you might be able to do.

    1. andrea, look up your chart at astro.com. they have a feature explaining the signs, houses and aspects called “astro click portrait.” good luck!

  23. Saturn square Moon or Saturn oppose Moon; I’ve read the comments and they inspired me to register, log on and comment after years of enjoying Darkstar Astrology. How Saturnine is that? 🙂 The comments that struck me were about not understanding if we cause others to reject or dislike us, the childhood filled with stories of taking care of siblings because parents were working, not available otherwise yes, shite….so the cooking discipline and order had to come from the elder or more aware sibling, Saturn…fills the void, steps in and tries to manage some order. Later, the errant husband or mate who in one way or another, isn’t the perfect partner we wished for but instead is often the rebellious child, so now the count of children is the actual children + 1….Damn..I hope I don’t have this aspect in the next life.

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