john-deeSun conjunct Lilith seems to play out as the ego feeling exiled from the dominant patriarchal system. Sometimes this is as a result of actual abuse from male authority figures. The closer Lilith is to the Sun the more it may feel eclipsed by males in their life because a conjunction* of under 8º will make Lilith combust by the Sun, meaning you cannot see it. However it is possible the old rules may not work in the traditional way here, as one is not be able to “see” Lilith in the normal way anyhow. Black Moon Lilith is the lunar apogee, an astrological point and not a physical lump of rock so can a point that is invisible anyway be blinded by the Suns rays? I leave this open to question. However looking at the example below, you can see that the Sun as patriarch clearly has a domineering effect on some of the celebrities below. You could say the Sun has an eclipsing effect over Lilith who is also a lunar archetype. Therefore the taboo is cast over these subjects identity, to the extent that they can become demonized. These sensitive folk may fall for the forbidden fruit of drugs to numb the pain of feeling like an outcast. Despite Sun conjunct Lilith’s anti-establishment behavior, Black Moon subjects need more than most to feel like they belong and feel part of a family. The way they can do this successfully is to bond with nature and animals. If other planets confirm this, their sexuality will be instinctive and untamed, and they feel very comfortable in their own skin.

If we can use the combustion theory, the subject may in their defense just totally reject any male/solar collaboration for fear of being totally outshone. Females could refuse to marry, or have same-sex relationships. Most subjects, whatever their sex, will prefer to work for themselves. There is a case where Lilith and the Sun work as a super planet in the case of the phenomena known as Cazimi, when the a planet is within 17’ of the Sun and sits in its throne. It is interesting that two of the cazimi cases worked closely with royalty. This is pretty rare however and I only found 4 examples in my database of 5000. Cazimi is supposed to make one a genius. When it does occur, the fiery creativity of the Sun fused with the piercing intuition of Lilith makes these subjects sexually magnetic and intense. They are closely bound to the spirit world, and can perform powerful magic for good and for ill. Mostly it seems, even the combust subjects if exiled, will create their own breed of sexuality or moral code, so in effect Sun conjunct Lilith crowns itself.



John Dee (06’) was most famous for being court astrologer and advisor to Elizabeth I. He was a gifted mathematician, astronomer and occultist dedicating his life to bridging the worlds of science and magic. Even though Dee was a devout Christian, he was profoundly influenced by Hermetic law, Plato and Pythagoras, believing that numbers were the root of all wisdom and all God’s creations were based on geometry and numbering. John Dee was obessed with connecting to the spirit world because he believed it contained higher wisdom. He was unsuccessful until he collaborated with Edward Kelley a spirit medium. Kelley’s Moon at 1º Aquarius was opposite Dee’s Sun/Lilith conjunction at 29º Virgo. (And exact conjunct Dee’s Moon) Dee spoke to the angels through Kelley. Due in part to Kelley’s showmanship and fame as an alchemist, the partnership became very successful. Lilith’s tendency for triangular relationships came into effect when Kelley claimed angel Uriel had demanded that they both share Dee’s second wife Jane Fromond (who was 28 years younger that Dee.) John begrudgingly complied for a while but then broke with Kelley eventually. After Elizabeth I’s death, Dee found no support and died in poverty. “Dee is now viewed as a serious scholar and appreciated as one of the most learned men of his day. His personal library at Mortlake was the largest in the country, and was considered one of the finest in Europe.” ~ Wiki

Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe (10’) was certainly gifted and prolific as an epic poet, writer and critic. He also studied law and became a German statesman. He was chief advisor to the Grand Duke and then was knighted himself. Goethe was also fascinated by natural science. He published works on morphology and colour theory. Goethe had the largest mineral collection in Europe having 17,800 rock samples in total. True to his Lilithian Sun, some of his literature was very erotic for the time he lived in. He was a visionary and influenced European thought greatly “a figure in two worlds: on the one hand, devoted to the sense of taste, order, and finely crafted detail, which is the hallmark of the artistic sense of the Age of Reason and the neo-classical period of architecture; on the other, seeking a personal, intuitive, and personalized form of expression and society, firmly supporting the idea of self-regulating and organic systems.” ~ Wiki

Patrick Duffy (02’). I wouldn’t say the handsome actor Mr Duffy rates as a genius, but he certainly has charisma and (ironically) did star as the Man from Atlantis before finding great fame playing Bobby Ewing in 80’s super-soap Dallas.


Drew Barrymore (97’) Actress; tasted Liliths forbidden fruit from childhood, smoking aged 9, alcohol abuse and snorting coke at 13 and an attempted suicide. Uninhibited with her body, she has exposed her breasts frequently in public and on talk shows. Drew is estranged from her father. One of her most famous roles is the negative spurned Lilith in the shape of a manipulative teen seductress in Poison Ivy. Drew has defined her sexuality thus “Being with a woman is like exploring your own body, but through someone else. When I was younger I used to go with lots of women. Totally. I love it”. ~ The Guardian 

Connie Francis (104’) Singer;  suffered under her dominant Italian father and endured abuse in some of her 4 marriages and eventually had a breakdown. She was raped and beaten after a performance so she became a recluse for 7 years. Her father put her in exile once more by committing her to a mental hospital due to severe depression. Years later she had a further psychotic episode and was once again institutionalised, this time put under guardianship (Sun). She came thought it all, successfully returning to shine once more as a singer. Steven Spielberg (73’) as a young Jewish boy often found himself an outcast and bullied by older males “In high school, I got smacked and kicked around. Two bloody noses. It was horrible.” ~ New York Times.  His blockbuster films reflect the themes of alienation. Interestingly in his family settings, the father is often absent. River Phoenix (84’) was a dedicated environmental activist and won a humanitarian award. It has been suggested that the drug abuse, which resulted in his untimely death may have been a result of suffering abuse at the hands of a religious cult to which his parents were at one time missionaries. Eve Sedgwick (38’) felt the ugly duckling within her good-looking family so she escaped into the intellectual world and made her name in “Queer studies”. She then became a self-professed “gay studies guru, who happens to be a heterosexual woman married to her fella”. Eve had both Mean & True Lilith conjunct the Sun. Also Britney Spears, Benny Anderson (Abba), Belle Boyd, Henry Winkler (The Fonz) and Uri Gellar.


Larry Csonka (02’) Former American football player and fullback who won the superbowl with the Miami dolphins in 1973 and 1974. He was successful despite being so large. He weighed 220 pounds (15 stone.) aged 16. “By the 1970s he was one of the most feared runners in professional football. Standing 6 ft 3 in …. he was one of the biggest running backs of his day and pounded through the middle of the field with relative ease, often dragging tacklers 5 -10 yards. He was described as a bulldozer or battering ram.” ~ WIKI.  Since his retirement he has become a motivational speaker.


Gary Numan (25’), James Dean (63’), Ina May Gaskin (79’), John Dee (Also Mean), Johann Goethe, Cheiro, Erin Brockovich, Terence McKenna, M.C Escher, Lena Zavaroni, Debbie Reynolds, Wikileaks chart, Cannibals chart, Jennifer Lopez, Victoria & Albert Davison, Charles & Camila Davison.



Sun conjunct Lilith • Sun sextile Lilith 
Sun square Lilith • Sun trine Lilith 
Sun quincunx Lilith • Sun opposite Lilith

Author: Marina Macario

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  1. If anyone needs to grow up it’s you, Marion. I have been “living and letting live”–you are the one who behaved with irrational anger at the idea that I dared to post a question here. Your attempt to justify bestiality is hilariously wrong and shows just how far you’re willing to go for the sake of “winning” an argument. (An argument built up solely by your own hostility by the way, since I posted here with no hostile intent or even “crusading” intent) As far as picking a forum, this site is open to the public, not excluded to some closed membership. Your desire to drive me to some other forum only reveals that you can’t handle reading viewpoints other than your own.

    Every word you have written on this topic–as well as any future rantings and ravings of yours–only serve to reveal you as unevolved and intolerent.

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  2. Melissa,

    Did you know that in some cultures homosexuality is punishable by law while bestiality is not? Of course law makers in those countries must be ‘hilarious clowns’, because Melissa thinks so.

    Now you are entertaining me! Do you want me to also tell you how rape fantasies might be right and good for human evolution? Don’t even get me started.

    Look, let other readers who are evolved enough to understand the tone, content and language in the comments be the judges of who has been ranting & intolerant toward general human society.

    Your original comment was not a mere question seeking an answer or opinion, it was a statement about being ‘disappointed’ with the publishing astrologer and other astrologers!

    Ok, i am off your case. Sorry again. I don’t gain anything by winning arguments with strangers on the internet.

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    • Get off it already, Marion. Seek help from a qualified therapist. Your need to disparage someone you don’t even know, to delude yourself that you have “won” something by flinging your prejudices around online is truly pathetic.

    • The countries you cite to validate your pro-bestiality/anti-homosexuality argument are on the Human Rights Watch list for the very reasons you mention. I doubt if you are actually in favor of human rights being violated. But you have let your desire to “win” an argument run away with you. What’s next? Quoting Hitler?

      Get a grip on yourself, deal with your anger issues. The only people who will agree with what you write are those who already came here with those same notions. Others who have similar beliefs to mine will disagree with you. Obviously you will never succeed in making me change my mind. So what is there to win? Nothing. People who disagree with you will continue to exist on the internet, including astrology sites, and we will continue to speak our minds. Get used to it.

      I feel sorry for you that you cannot control your anger. You have clearly worked yourself up into a lather at someone you don’t even know, to the extent that you are willing to (pretend to? ) take the side of repressive regimes. And all because someone online expressed an opinion you dislike.

      I am unsubscribing from this thread so if you post any further on this issue, you will in effect be shouting and flailing at an empty room.

  3. I have Pallas in Gemini natally and and Venus in Virgo with pretty strong Mercurial undercurrents and can’t really comment on astrology and sexuality per se. For me relationships in general are about the mind and the passion of the mind. If I don’t have both, then generally I don’t have a real relationship. Natally I have saturn in Gemini with all of the relevant challenges and communication challenges at exactly 6 degrees, but in time as I age this becomes a greater strength. I am grateful for the capacity to escape from extremely challenging problems in creative ways. Sexuality can be a form of communication and of course I fully support individual modes of communication. As a Virgo I tend to categorize and solve problems, the catch-22 is that labels can become problems themselves via fallacy of omission due to the limitations of the label intended to solve a given problem. In the end treatment of a symptom or set of symptoms only prolongs the problem and causality is never addressed. Symptomatic thinking can never access the universal mind which is less bound by limited thought process. At what point can someone truly say this must always be done in this exact way and and that ‘can’t, or ‘impossibility’ is the only answer? With regard to intolerance, I would assume that this would be a double edged sword depending upon what universe it was placed. Bias of some sort may be part of the human condition, but I don’t believe it to be a controlling factor of the universal mind. What is may or may not be, just as what isn’t may or may not be in a space time continuum. Just throwing this out there…

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  4. Marina,

    I fully agree with you that “Homosexuals are not immune to intolerance toward others.”
    True that minority groups are more susceptible to being sidelined by systems that cater to a majority. And it is a must that all progressive societies should engage and involve with all such groups in order to evolve collectively.
    But in the meantime, there are cases where ‘minor percentage group’ members and their supporters project their anger and intolerance toward mainstream society based on their perception (rather than reality) of being marginalized. It is not uncommon for some of them to lash out, for no good reason, at neutral members of the mainstream who are actually are neither ‘anti’ nor ‘pro’ their group. This usually happens because they appropriate anything and everything to ‘they being in that given minority group’. More like ‘Oh your car crashed into mine because i have X skin color or because i have Y disease or because i have Z religious affiliation etc’
    To avoid beating the same old horse of homosexuality, lets take another example from disabled people who are also a ‘minor percentage group’. Some of them (not all) hate being called ‘disabled’ because they consider it to be labeling. Ok, so then others start calling them ‘differently-abled’. They hate that too because it is taken as ‘adding insult to injury’. Then people start calling them ‘people with special needs’. They hate that too because ‘their needs are same as all humans’ etc. etc..
    So then what word does one use to identify/refer to them especially in situations necessitating provision of specialized services to them, such as assistance in an aircraft.
    You cant win with such people who are bitter due to their own personal challenges. ‘Do and you are damned and dont and you are damned’!

    Btw, i have Asc, Sun and Pallas in a grand earth trine. Lilith is on MC. I have a conflict prone Mars- Pluto conjunction in the 5H (in the social sign of Libra) sextiling a fantasy prone Neptune-Moon conjunction in 7H (in fast fleeting Saggitarius). Strong social deviant signature for sure. I most definitely belong to a social minority group myself and am not homophobic or anti-homosexual at all!

    Anyway Marina, do keep up the good work you are doing on the blog. I have been a reader for sometime though i have not commented before. I like your variety of astrology on my plate, because it refers to star constellations and decanates, which helps me find bridges between western astrology and Nakshatra based Vedic astrology.

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  5. Okay, just a quick correction that me and my Virgo Moon are often making. The Black Moon that pops up on charts automatically is the Mean Black Moon Lilith. It is not in any way, shape, or form the lunar apogee. That is a point ON the Moon’s orbit which indicates the point where the Moon would be farthest from the Earth given the location of the Moon at the time and place the chart was made. It is calculated to an approximate location and given the name Interpolated Lunar Apogee, and it is a Black Moon point but not the one typically used in charts. You have to add it specially in Astrodienst from the list of hypothetical and additional objects.

    The Mean Black Moon Lilith is the point WITHIN the Moon’s orbit which is the averaged-out second focal point of the Moon’s elliptical orbit around the earth, the first focal point being the center of the Earth. A circle has one center, an ellipse has two. The true Black Moon Lilith, or osculating Lilith, is the actual focal point at the moment the chart was created. Because of the Moon’s bumpy, imperfect orbit, it moves quite a lot from here to there, back and forth, but overall forward along the path and at the pace indicated by the Mean Black Moon.

    Example. My osculating Lilith is at 0 Aquarius, conjunct asteroid Academia (unfortunately for my career experiences with academia) and my current progressed Venus. My Mean Black Moon is at 20 Aquarius, conjunct Pholus at 19, and in between lie Mars and Venus retrograde at 14 and 13 Aquarius. If this sounds familiar, Marina, it is because we were born about two weeks apart. My ILA Lilith is at 26 Aquarius conjunct Pallas, more or less, at 24 Aquarius. Not at all the same as the Mean Black Moon, as you can see. And, just for completeness, my asteroid Lilith is opposite my 19 Cap Sun at 20 Cancer, retrograde, in my sixth, and the hypothetical Dark Moon object is at 10 Aries, tightly conjunct Eris and Prometheus, a fitting placement perhaps for someone who’s often perceived as stirring up trouble to get the correct truth out. Lol

    Think of what this implies about the function and experience of the Black Moon. It is a second center of gravity, but completely lacking in visible, substantive form, around which we must balance our emotional cores and dependency needs (Moon). It is like dancing with an invisible partner. Think of Golum wrestling Bilbo Baggins the first time Bilbo slips on the ring. A partner we cannot see but definitely feel and have to accommodate or be thrown off center.

    Best wishes, Marina. Almost always read your posts and enjoy their thoughtful yet freewheeling trips through the stars.

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