Black Moon Lilith

Black Moon Lilith is the most commonly used Lilith and is the lunar apogee. The differences are explain in The Three Liliths post. To understand the Black Moon Lilith, one first needs to get to grips with how she fits into the bigger picture.

The Dark Goddess archetype as a whole is associated with sex, death, obsession, addiction, transformation, resurrection, magic, the occult and the taboo. It is the birth-canal between the spiritual dimension, (or the underworld) and life on the physical plane.

Eris was discovered in 2005, so finally we now have a solid incarnation of the dark goddess in the sky. As Persephone, Eris is the consort of Pluto, so they work as a duet. Together they describe the transformation that occurs from going through a dark night of the soul. Usually, the trigger is great suffering, mourning, pain or torture. In their negative manifestations, Pluto represents the abuse of power and is the predator, whereas Eris (as Persephone) can be seen as either the enabler or the victim.

The Dark Goddess Archetype

Negative Eris can be someone who protests at the power Pluto has over them, but still chooses to stay the victim and continue in the abusive situation. The polarity plays out as the victim/ savior dynamic and can be quite sadomasochistic. It is also reminiscent of the addict who will find every excuse in the book as to why they cannot cease taking their drug, no matter how destructive it is to them. Positive Eris is the phoenix from the flames that escapes from abuse in the underworld and crowns herself queen. Eris can also be the whistle-blower and spy. The crown symbolism is important as you will see later. Eris is irreversibly wiser after her dark night of the soul. Like the tarot card the Queen of Swords, Eris has scars, is now skeptical about life and not as naive as when she first took a bite of Pluto’s forbidden fruit.

Eris as a planet moves so slowly, so its energy can only be looked at trans-personally. Some people will have Eris very prominent in their birth chart if it is connected to the AC, MC, Sun or Moon. These folk then may end up representing the Dark Goddess archetype in the collective. They may become famous for addressing Eris/Dark Goddess themes in their work. The apple connects both Eris and Lilith, as both are exiled, banished outsiders. You could say that Lilith is the lower octave of Eris, just like Mars is to Pluto. Mars = 2 years (to orbit the Sun) while Pluto = 248 years. Lilith = 9 years while Eris = 560 years.

Black Moon Lilith & The Night

Black Moon Lilith is connected with the Moon too which of course is very personal. Lilith is not a solid planet revolving around a central sun, which puts its meaning into a very grey area. This twilight zone could represent the cultural attitude and representation of sex. Sex is a very personal act, the most personal act you can get really (aside from elimination!) But sex has been politicised and there are even laws governing it.

You could also say that Black Moon Lilith transmits Eris’s ancient wisdom down to the earth plane through the act of sex. Another phenomenon that has happened since Mean Black Moon Lilith was birthed into our consciousness in 1930 is pornography. The regular Moon rules the memory, the imagination and dreams. Eris transmits through genetic memory, that filters down to us through the conduit of the Black Moon. Fairytales, myths, dreams and surrealist art all speak to us through this right brain, symbolic language.

Black Moon LilithAstronomically, Dark Moon Lilith is the lunar apogee. It does not exist as a physical point in space but is a point that describes the distance between the earth and the moon, the empty focus. The date of the Lunar Apogee (When the Moon is furthest from the earth) will place Black Moon Lilith conjunct the Moon. While the Lunar Perigee (When the Moon is closest to the earth) will place Black Moon Lilith opposite the Moon. (This only works using the True Lilith which I talk about later).

Sometimes Black Moon Lilith is seen as a kind of ghost moon, a shadow. In myth, she is also seen as a succubus, a night demon, and a baby killer. Modern-day UFO abductions can also be associated with Lilith as are night terrors. The abduction connection with Eris/Persephone is also strong with Lilith. So Black Moon Lilith is a ‘lady of the night’ whatever way you look at her, so of course, as the forbidden seductress, Lilith is also connected with prostitutes.

Black Moon Lilith is famously about sex, but not in same way as Mars and Venus. (Ie: For courting and procreation.) No, instead Lilith is about the power, politics, and psychology of sex. With Lilith, sex is a powerful weapon and that is why certain religions wanted to have total control of it. FGM is a graphic example of literally cutting out the sacred pleasure center for women. The vilest manifestation of Lilith is pedophilia, incest and satanic ritual abuse. Again this mirrors the abduction and rape of Persephone by her much older uncle.

Sex is important to eugenicists. It is through selective breeding that certain bloodlines and ethnic groups succeed or die out. Women are therefore the gatekeepers to the next generation as they choose (Unless they are raped) whether they will breed with a certain man or not. Men see themselves as the natural defenders of the next generation, and part of the patriarch’s duty is to ensure their genes are passed down through the holy grail of their women.

Therefore it is the nature of the male to ensure that his female is not ‘abducted’ and impregnated by the genes of a man from outside his tribe. The Lilith forbidden fruit then could also describe what the serpent stands for. The serpent symbol looks very much like the double helix of the DNA. Mercury/Hermes, the symbol for the medical profession, also holds a caduceus, two serpents intertwined, the symbol of the DNA and genetic engineering. Back to Persephone and Pluto again.

The Greco-Roman myth describes an abduction, which may just be describing a historical fact at the time. Greece was the cradle of western civilisation was also the front line between the east and west. We can view Pluto as being the dark male threat from the orient and representing a human ‘forbidden fruit’ for the women. Protecting European genes for the future was a very primal, survival response back then and probably still is today.

The DNA Serpent

The goddess-based religions of Greece seemed to describe a very sexually liberated culture for women before Christianity. No one really knows what the Elysium mysteries were about, but there is evidence of orgies and sacred sex with temple virgins. (harlots). As time progressed, and with the Roman empire, it seems women became more and more protected and hidden away. Feminists tend to say this was patriarchy’s need to control and dominate women, but could it be that it was for their own protection? Patriarchy = paternal, what father wouldn’t protect his daughter from ‘abduction’? The sexual conquering of a nation is a fundamental fear. Sex is power and Black Moon Lilith demonstrates this very well.

When one wants to change and control the culture of a people, they do it through sex. Culture is literally what a cell feeds off when it is in a petri-dish. Culture will shape the human cell and change its civilisation forever. So it really is women who can bring the downfall of civilisation, because they carry the responsibility of what types of genes succeed and what do not. Lilith is the eugenicist, so the ‘forbidden fruit’ could be the control over breeding. Some say the forbidden knowledge is genetics and that humans are part star-child, part human hybrids. Whatever the case, Eris and Lilith seem to have a lot to do with the creation myth, genes, aliens, evolution and taboo subjects such as race.

The Cult & Culture Of Sex

Trauma based mind-control, through the use of sexual torture is another area connected with Lilith. The dark dungeon of the underworld is often filled with pain and abuse. Lilith was actually said to be a hermaphrodite, so she was both a succubus and an incubus. When reading her meaning in a chart it is often confusing to see how she functions in a male chart. Young boys are also targets for pedophiles. In fact anal sex could be considered particularly Lilithian because it is obviously not going to produce any offspring. The sexual persuasion of the pedophile is irrelevant. Prepubescent children are pretty asexual and this too is very Lilithian, (as stated earlier Lilith was a hermaphrodite.)

The point is, that Black Moon Lilith is associated with sexual deviancy (Deviation from the norm) and the blurring of gender. Lilith sex can be taboo or push through boundaries. It tends not to be about procreation. ‘Baby-killing’ is associated with Lilith because the more developed and educated a society becomes, the less children a woman has. Better sanitation, food, health etc mean we do not need to breed ‘spares.’ But currently western civilisation (Europeans in particular) are not even replacing themselves. This reproductive strategy is in some way due to birth control and abortion which could also be an Eris issue. Again women carry this great responsibility, that they have the ‘choice’ to terminate their descendants.

True & Mean Versions Of Lilith

root-chakraOriginally in this report I was going to use both the meanings for both True Lilith and Mean Lilith, but I realised that I was muddying the waters of Lilith and decided to settle with the True Lilith after years of using both. The early use of the lunar apogee started around one hundred years ago before computers. In those days was easier then to average out the movement of the lunar apogee and use its Mean position to avoid wild inaccuracies. In the 1990’s, ephemerides for the True position came out. True Lilith is constantly whizzing back and forth, and is retrograde a lot of the time. True Lilith can deviate as much as 30º from the mean position.

True Lilith is also known as osculating Lilith. Osculate means ‘kiss’ or ‘little mouth’ in Latin. Interestingly the only other planet that osculates in this same fashion (albeit at a much slower pace) is Eris, who retrogrades back and forth so much, that it takes her 5 to 8 years to cross one degree of the zodiac. I have come to the conclusion then, that the so-called ‘True Lilith’ is the one true Lilith. This version of the Black Moon, with its wild, hard-to-tame behavior, is more authentic to the core meaning of Lilith. However, having used both Liliths in my work over the last 10 years, I wouldn’t dismiss the Mean version, and its hypothetical position entirely. Instead, I would say Mean Lilith carries more of a negative/fake meaning of the Black Moon. The mean Lilith version is also useful when looking at the general transiting black moon (But not at lunations)….To be continued!

This an excerpt from the first chapter of the Lilith report/eBook that I am currently working on.

97 thoughts on “Black Moon Lilith

  1. I love your BML pieces and find looking at my True Lilith conjunct the North Node, super interesting. I have the other two conjunct and exact oppose Mars in Libra so was aware of that, but this true conjunct the North also effects the Nodal square to natal Jupiter. When Mars hit the Nodes last time, I tossed a whole lot of cookies into the air only to do a complete turn around a month or so later. So I was super aware of the possible reaction to it this time around, still am and am happy to remain tentative. Thanks for the heads up with this one xo

  2. Thanks so much Karen:))
    Wow, True Lilith conjunct the North Node is potent. Plus you have Mars opposing the Liliths too. Hot stuff, I know it too well.
    I found my True Lilith (Osculating) was even closer conjunct my Mars (21′) than Mean Lilith when I discovered it. That sent me into an osculating spin I can tell you!

  3. Keep up the great work on Lilith, Marina. I really appreciate the reading you did for me and it gave me a great deal of insight into my sexual kinkiness. My friends have said that since I have been talking about Lilith, she is popping up everywhere in their consciousness. I think that is so cool. Also…kudos for considering L Ron Hubbard. Whatever you think about scientology, you have to admit that Hubbard was a helluva guru.

  4. absolutely FANTASTIC post, Marina!

    The idea of the Lillith corridor between the mean and true dark Moon is fascinating…i have to look mine up now.
    Keep up the GREAT work!!

  5. OMG Marina (as our American friends would say). Your Osc Lilith is between your BM Lilith (17′) and Mars (20′). That’s one powerful Halloween zone. The triple conjunctions of Jupiter Chiron Neptune at that zone in your chart sure activated some powerful Lilith energy in you. This weekend there is a Neptune New Moon on your Marsy Liliths. Awesome! A big month coming up for you. Seems like this is your destiny, Lilith guru.

  6. Ewwwwww….I too must hop on Solar fire to check my own personal Samhain. My intuition tells me its dark!!! lol…Thanks for the wisdom “Lilith Guru.” It was coherant, beauiful, and inspriing. Dig it. So does this mean you wanna be on the podcast now???


  7. So,,,is there a way to display both the Osc and BML at the same time in Solar fire, or do you have to just redraw the chart? And, yes, its dark!!! lol

  8. Thank’s for the great feedback everyone! I guess I’d better make use of that Neptune New Moon this weekend and write the summary of all the Liliths and the what I have learnt from my journey to the Halloween zone…..

    THEN yes Adam I feel confident that I can speak with authority about Lilith now. My knowledge has matured from Osculating to Mean Mother F*****!

    I don’t know about Solar Fire, I need to get it now that my new Mac supports windows. But I need it to show all the Lilith’s at once.

  9. thank u for that helpful article but can I ask

    if lilith (4 pisces) square the sun (2 sag.) and the moon (26 scorpio) in the natal chart.

    how that will affect a girl in her future (24 nov. 1992) 00:45 am cairo egypt.

    thank you in advance

  10. @Hanan

    Hi Hanan.

    Your Sun square Black Moon Lilith is just over 2 degs so yes that’s just in orb. Some would say your magic and sexuality would be at odds with men in general or you would find it hard to integrate it with your own life force. But squares get things done.

    The Sun in (Sidereal) Scorpio is intense and passionate and Lilith in Aquarius is eccentric, but unique. It’s in the 6th house of daily work. You have to find an occupation that allows you do express your individuality. Otherwise you may have run-ins with the boss (Sun). Your Sun is your creative spark, it’s in the house of communications, so you do need to express yourself verbally, but not shout! lol.?Best to be your own boss I would think.
    It looks like your Sun is on the fixed star Antares too, which is can make you tough, a bit of a dare-devil with great mental alertness and courage. But with Lilith could make a person “rash, ravenous, headstrong and destructive to themselves by their own obstinacy. [ANTARES by Robson*, 136.]”?So be careful of that side of it.

    Read all you can about Black Moon Lilith. As you can see it’s energies can go either way. It’s up to you to find a channel for it to work beneficially. BML square Sun is a big deal, but more so because Sun is on Antares. Ron L Hubbard has BML on Antares and look what he did with that! Your’s is in square, so it must mean, like him you have great personal charisma.?Watch out for being too hot tempered and aggressive. As you get older I think you will find it easier to use this aspect wisely and you have the potential for great personal power and success.

    It’s too wide to affect the Moon, so don’t worry about that!
    Hope that was helpful.

  11. Bewitching it is, indeed! Really interesting points to meditate on, Marina. So, just to clarify, the “corridor” is the space between Oscillating Lilith and True Mean Lilith, correct? It gets confusing with all the different Lilith’s some times! I have a 9 degree span with Saturn conjunct TML in Scorpio. The Lilith myth/theme has been a strong one all my life, something that I’m continually forced to deal with, so your article is enlightening. Thank you so much, Marina. I appreciate your vision.

  12. Thanks Vanessa,
    Yes the corridor is between the both of them. Oh confusing Lilith, to clarify again, True Lilith is the osculating one and Mean Lilith is just the normal one!
    I think Dark Moon should be renamed “Ghost Moon” also. I might start calling it that from now on myself.
    I spoke to Kelley Hunter on Facebook today, she said she did think Black Holes were connected to Lilith and also Galactic centre. Very interesting!

  13. Okay, I’ve got it now. Thank you for the rapid clarification! It’s interesting you bring up the Black Holes correlation with Lilith – from the first time I heard of black holes, that was the feeling I got, you know, somewhere deep inside that I can’t let go of, that they are connected or one in the same YES! My understanding at this point is that Ghost Moon is a node, similar to Rahu/Ketu – like a sister actually – a feminine reflection (mirror) of the masculine dynamic of nodes and their impact -which is tremendous and powerful! Maybe I’m wrong in the astronomy department but I do recall my initial gut reaction *click* when I learned the calculations – that she was a point of alignment – a “shadowy” graha (one that seizes in sanskrit), not an embodied planet, just like Rahu/Ketu. Why wouldn’t Ghost Moon, as you so aptly named her, have as much impact and power? For there is balance and harmony in all the Universe – there is feminine (shakti) to masculine (shiva) is everything. (I’m a vedic student btw) I’ve been fascinated with Ghost Moon for a long, long time. Just now things are starting to open up and it’s about time!

    What a trip – the Galactic Center – the alignment in 2012. Now, this could get REALLY exciting! Thank you SO much Marina ~ I’ll be following this all with great fascination!

  14. Lilith mania indeed! I’m pretty flattered beyond recognition that the Face of Lilith Herself found my article clarifying, so thank you thank you thank you.

    This is awesome, and extremely telling- it kind of speaks to what I was saying, about a more constructive (or stable) application of Lilith vs. a kind of warped and deranged one, or rather, the most extreme twist on your culturally prescribed role. I am, however, a little bit confused as to how one exactly finds the True Lilith and calculates the corridor. I’m very curious to do mine (my BML is at 10+ Pisces in my 10th House, widely conjoining my Sun-Mercury- explains quite a bit, doesn’t it?), but my brain is currently snow-mush and I’m having a hard time following the math.

  15. this is for

    black moon lilith (mean) is the main one in the extended chart selection

    oscillating black moon lilith (true) h13

    asteroid lilith 1181

    Waldemath, dark moon lilith h58

  16. @Jamie Funk
    Thank you sir.

    My True Lilith is at 0+ Aries retrograde. So my Lilith corridor has a tight stranglehold on my Sun, Mercury and Ceres all in Pisces. Not to mention that True Lilith squares my 7th House Neptune and Black Moon Lilith makes an exact T-square with my nodes. I am indeed a poisonous blowfish, or a shark.

  17. Marina –
    Curious of how you would interpret my lilith and BML conjunct my MC within 1 degree at 2:09 and 2:25 aqua..also have algol exact conj asc. my other lilith (1181) is in the first house between jupiter and true node 4 degrees so, that may not be close enough to count. Hoping you have the patience for one more as this is absolutely fascinating to me lately as it explains so very much.

  18. @susnshine_rocker

    So you have a Lilith black hole on your MC. Are you working in a Lilith type profession? The occult, tarot reading, astrology? Herbalist or healer? As I said in the article, the Black Hole is real hard to handle, I battle with mine all the time. Do you get flashes of prophetic, uncannily accurate info from the Universe right at the same time as sexual jealousy or plain rage at someone?

    Algol on the AC! Phew I knew someone with that, very charismatic, but also a problem with alcohol.Then had an awakening while meditating where they felt their 3rd eye and saw visions. Its very psychic, but can drive you crazy. I think thats why the ancients made it out to be “evil” Have you had those sort of issues?

    I found our recently my 6 yr old daughter has BML on Algol. What a gift! Hardly a demon, but she does have. The STARE…

    Your Black hole corridor is on my Sun at 2degs 03′ Aqua:)))

  19. @Lucy

    I think everyone I click with instantly has a strong Lilith. We should form a coven.
    Ha ha! And my BML squares my Neptune too (20′) Shark? Crumbs…

    I reckon Lilith is one of the factors in ace Astrologers. Look at Liz Green. She had none of the astrologers fixed stars or Astrologers degrees. But her Liliths!

  20. @Vanessa Keys

    BML is the one that works like a node. That’s why, like the Nodes it has a true and mean version.
    So everything you say goes very nicely with BML, the Shakti/Shiva. Yes!

    And as you say she is a point of alignment, comparing her to the nodes is great. I think the Vertex actually works even more like Lilith, there you can really get sucked in. Fits in with the Black hole theory too.

    The Dark Moon(Waldemath.) is what I was calling the “Ghost” Moon. Discussing this has really helped to clarify the 3 Liliths for me when I write the summary. Thanks for all the input everyone:))))

  21. I have Lilith and Osc. Lilith at less than 1 degree apart in the 9th House. They are both conjunct the Moon in Gemini.

    Both are sextile Saturn and sesquisquare Mars.

  22. @AyeCantSeeYou

    Jesus! I think thats the tightest Black Hole corridor I’ve ever heard of AND conjunct the moon too. How does that feel?

    Mars fires it up and Saturn restricts. Interesting tug of war going on there.

  23. Marina, let’s just say the tug of war can be a living hell. ‘Interesting’ doesn’t even begin to describe it at times, ‘scary’ may be a better word, depending on what all else is going on at the time!

    I want to thank you for your explanation of Lilith, though. It’s by far the best I’ve come across yet.

  24. Yes, ok I’ll go with SCARY!!!. I have Mars conjunct Lilith, so I know what that feels like. Breathing fire and great big flapping dragon wings or something like that….

  25. I’m going to chime in with AyeCantSeeYou here – your interpretations of (all) Liliths is amazingly clarifying – and you slay me with the paintings you create with words!!

  26. so glad I have come across your blog! A little exhausted from the long journey and quest for for healing. Hope to find some consolation here amongst kindred souls…

  27. Hi Lil(li)ane,
    Thanks, I’ve learnt too there are quite a few kindred souls out there and its great to be cosmically “traveling” together. Check out the links to our favourite blogs. I have a few different, probably more witchy links on my Lilith Pages section.

  28. SARA ELIZABETH CHURCH(birth name)2/18
    the more I am learning than i already knew lilith,the amazingly UN FREEAKIN CANNY almost SPPOKY resemblence to ME,MY LIFE as I HAVE BEEN CALLED!

  29. Lillith conjunct Neptune coming up in June? still opposite Uranus? I wonder if I had a little taster yesterday when I put my head a little too far near the oven whilst lighting it!!!! Short eyelashes, short eyebrows, less and shorter hair. But hey I was lucky I could have been bold and very badly burnt. Felt really weird to be on fire physically instead of symobolically or emotionally.

  30. Oh my!! I’ve just been looking into this. Lilith was conjunct Neptune during the Salem witch trials and hangings. Mars will be opposite it June too. Think you could have been burn’t at the take in another life?

  31. quite possibly. Try though I may,also in this life I have never managed to be the submissive type and my nose is also a give-away.(lol!) continuously educating myself about the male ego and trying to develop some social skills as I go along…I probably always was a handful in my fight for justice and equality. I do also quite like to be in charge but didn’t think I would go as far as organising my own life bbq this coming June?! Is that progress I wonder??, hhahaha
    Thanks btw for you comment. I do recognise real people anywhere!

  32. Ok, so I just found this site through Astrofix. It’s awesome, by the way. My BML and osc Lilith are 43′ apart at 11/12 Aquarius. I think it’s interesting that I’m discovering so much info on Lilith right now! I always knew I was Plutonian, but this adds a new dimension being trine my exact Sun (Asc ruler)-Mars (MC ruler) conjunction at 11 Gemini, and located on my Desc at 6 Aqu. Recently I’ve been evaluating my relationships, and the myths of Lilith are eerily accurate when referring to power struggles and independence. They add new dimensions to the relationship “challenges” of my chart.

  33. I haven’t yet, but I certainly will! I also noticed that my asteroid Lilith is at 8 Cancer and my progressed sun is at 7 Cancer. Maybe that’s why I’m being drawn to all this information right now. Awesome site!

  34. @ jjason. Thanks!:)) As for Lilithness, It will be in your personal transits yes. But I also think its because of this Lilith/Neptune conjunction. I’m being drawn to Aleister Crowley and Hermetic Arts right now. It’s been very powerful. I’m seeing it in our clients.

  35. Marina, I went to…. new to lilith not one I had on my chart.. there are 2? so I am confused. Would you mind taking a look and telling me in my chart which is which.

    number 1181 showed up at 19 degrees Sag
    and when just clicked lilith its 1 degree scorp

    If its the 1 degree scorp does that give me yet another type of yod to look at? The boomerang yod? with lilith as the release area?

    If so I think its time to become much better versed in the YOD… lol

  36. I hope it’t not too late to comment on this post. I’m researching information on my BML, which is in the first house exactly conjunct a sag moon @ 27:32 with BML @ 27:37. This conjunction trines a 9th house JU/PL conjunction from 28:32 Leo (PL) and 0:02 Virgo (JU). I’m extremely sensitive to other peoples feelings/moods and have good instincts. True (OSC?) Lilith @ 22:40 capricorn (2nd house) exactly squares Libra Mars at 22:32 (11th house). I can certainly be intense in a relationship and have sometimes called myself “the girlfriend from hell”, meaning I can become intensely involved (loving & caring) only to eventually lose interest and rather quickly. I know a lot of that comes from the first house sag moon, but how does Lilith play into all this? Also, my mars conjuncts neptune, so if my partners are not absolutely honest with me (or faithful) it causes me to lose interest because if they lie to me, I usually end up dreaming the truth, which scares the heck out of them while annoying me. Does BLM in the first house (conjunction is exactly sextile neptune in 11th and trine Pluto in the 9th) contribute to this psychic relationship ability? Someone told me that the 1st house conjunction sextile the mars/neptune conjunction and trine the jupiter/pluto conjunction was extremely fortunate and means the angels are watching over me. C

    1. I have found Lilith in tight aspect to Neptune, Pluto or the Moon (In that order) to be a very strong aspect in psychics (under 2 degs) And you have all 3? Wow! And Mars/Neptune is Spiritual warrior. I can understand the Lilith/Mars being the girlfriend from hell! Lol.. I have it conjunct. But I think the sexiness might make up for it;) If you play with fire…
      Jupiter/Pluto is supposed to be the millionaires aspect, so you have rich Angels.

    2. Nina – your Moon+Lilith is on the Galactic Center which will accentuate all the Lilith qualities

      it will also feed that dreamtime ‘truth seeing’ BIGTIME – but, its a gift……

      the other GC function is to power up the root chakra – intense but empowering

      Moon is also conjunct Etamin which is a fixed star in the right eye of Draco – strong esoteric perception and focus

      also, you have Pluto on fixed star Regulus – your Angels are not only rich they are royal – Archangels!!

      theres a good chance you also have Uranus square Neptune too (and Chiron in there?) which would also amp up the psychic side, amongst other things – hope this is of some use…..

  37. I enjoyed reading your article. I know a person with Asc conj with Lilith in Sagitarius… Does he has a spritual power over people?
    What do you think?

  38. Hi everyone! Just realised I’m a about a year too late with my reply. I thought the first comment was posted feb 2011…oh well! I felt I had to reply as I have the black moon lilith, oscillating lilith, venus, mars and eris all conjunct between 19 to 21 aries – all trining uranus at 18 sag. Not 100 % certain on my birth time, but as far as I know this conjunction occurs in either my 9th or 10th house, possibly near the MC. The above descriptions interest me alot, but I’m not sure how it all applies to me yet as I also have a pisces sun in the 8th house so both the light and dark side of spirituality/ EVERYTHING has always appealed to me! I’m a recent graduate of human rights law and criminal justice – hoping to eventually work in that area – so maybe that’s an expression of my lilith?!?!

  39. I would like to submit a big question to you. Here is the data for Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s DOB: April 25, 1949, 11 am, Neuilly sur Seine (Paris).
    I noticed that he was born with Moon 2° Aries and Black Moon 1° Aries closely conjunct the Midheaven at 5° Aries. And the time of the alleged attack, the Black Moon was conjunct this spot again (5° Aries). Does that suggest deception as in a setup, or does it speak of rape and retaliation for it?

  40. Hi. Cool article. I have “True” Lilith in 16 degrees Virgo, and my AC in 19 degrees Virgo..does this count as Lilith Rising? My Mean Lilith is in 3 degrees Libra.

    1. Yes I’d count that as rising I think. AC is important and anything 10 degs above or below the AC puts it into the Gauquelin power zone also. Usually I give 2.30degs for Lilith with planets, and 3 degs for Luminaries and angles.

  41. What if lilith is at the top of someone’s chart? particularly 0 degrees virgo 48 minutes out of leo. also is there a way to find osc. lilith on astro? what is the value number?

  42. Awesome article!!!! I have Lilith in the first,conjunct Uranus, my North Node and prenatal Solar eclpise, trine my 5th house Moon,inconjunct my 6th house Saturn/Jupiter conj.,square my 9th house Nessus Ceres conj., all within a 3 degree orb. Were I to go with a 5 degree orb, then you can add a T-Square to my Midheaven/Vest conj, and 7th house intercepted Chiron in Pisces. I also have Pluto in the first house … sextile a Mercury/Mars/Neptune Scorpio stellium, and inconjunct Eris in the eigth. Not surprising that I have an extraordinary life story to match those aspects. hehehe… No surprise either that I’ve always been intrigued by Marilyn Monroe, am a Johnny Cash fan, and fascinated by Pablo Picasso.

  43. hey marina: i don’t know if you’ve covered this on the blog or what. but, lilith returns, mine are coming up at the end of the year (nov and dec). last time around i was 18 and got into a really wretched car crash (no physical injuries) that totally pivoted my mental state and way of life in a different direction. the emotional issues and stress from my family, blaming me, etc…. sent me into a self-destruction spiral that i’m only now coming out of. i think there may be some correlation with this sense of transforming and my current pluto on natal moon and the upcoming lilith returns. what is your experience with natal black moon returns? thanx

  44. Hi, Marina-

    Am trying to dig deeper into this Lilith business of late and am so glad to find your work since, I must confess, most of what I’ve seen out there seems to be misogynist crap. Am finding myself confused by which is which on Astrodienst. Help? There is the Lilith that is an option under “additional objects” which seems to be asteroid Lilith, but then there is h13, h21, h58 and 1181 and I’m having trouble figuring out which one is Mean Lilith. I think I might inherently BE Mean Lilith at times, so I’d like to figure this out. Any thoughts at all would be welcome.

    Thank you!

    1. Yes, I think Marina should add a section to this post about finding Lilith in the charts at Astrodients. Black Moon Lilith you can find in the extended chart selection. The box with “additional ojbects” lists “Lilith” which is Black Moon Lilith (Mean).

      Under “List of other horoscope factors and “hypothetical” planets” you will find h13 which is Black Moon Lilith (True)

      h21 is Dark Moon Lilith.

      Asteroid Lilith (1181) is found under “Asteroid name/number list with 16271 names”.

      Bugger it, I’ve half done it now, may as well add it to the post 🙂

    2. Hmmm…okay. I get Mean/True and the asteroid Lilith, but what is the difference between h21 (what you are listing as the Dark Moon) and h58 (which Marina lists as the Waldemath Moon, which I thought was the Dark Moon?)

      Thanks for the speedy reply last night!

    3. OK, I sould have written h58 instead of h21 for Dark Moon Lilith (Waldemath’s Moon). I don’t know what h21 is. I don’t think Marina uses it but will get her to confirm it for us.

  45. what do you mean by natural lillith when speaking of h21…..
    Mine falls in my 7th house. Uranus was on this point when I finally left my husband after years of Uranus transiting my 7th.

  46. So I am confused as to what this means
    M Lilith aries 4°51’26” 9 6’41”
    #g 1181 Lilith scorpio 9°52’42”
    #h osc.Lilith pisces 28°52’54
    #i Waldemath virgo 6° 4’28”
    What is Waldemath?
    My M Lilith is conjunct my Moon and Jupiter
    My 1181 (Black?) Moon is conjunct my Venus
    Can you shed any light?

  47. Also the oscilating Lilith is conjunct my Vesta and Pallas Athena. how effective are these in a chart?

  48. Hi 🙂
    Can I get a lilith reading ? I was told i have a strong Lilith in my chart sun and moon in libra and both in 8 th house ,
    I have a Lilith Conjunct my moon and conjunct my sun . I don’t I don’t know how to interpret this .!!!! Lol
    Xo Jess

  49. I am celebrating Lilith in a big way today!

    BIG lessons learned.
    This solar eclipse time, which was hugely palpable here for the last few days – certainly yesterday, coincided with all kinds of conjunctions in my chart. What an incredible thing for an astrologer to get all these real life lessons at once!

    The eclipse was on my birth Jupiter and the transiting Jupiter at the same time was conjunct my Venus and Midheaven which are on Algol, Mercury close in on that conjunction had my mind giving me a running commentary.
    Not done yet. Black moon Lilith exactly conjunct my birth Sun AND Mars back again to conjunct Mars, Uranus and Pluto in my first house. The Mars “birthday” being exact. Pluto is still transiting my 23° wide Lilith coridor in my fifth house (Placedus).

    Interesting issues were brought up in terms of the source, use and fear of power for me and also what that means for me as a woman and as an artist. If I shut the door on my rage and my distructiveness (I am a bend over backwards to please all of the people all of the time person) then I end up limp and anaemic and can’t move. I somehow learned to construct a sort of cat flap that let the sex and art through thinking that was me having it all under control, but it was in a way that further depleted my energy: paint a picture and collapse all limp afterwards, etc.

    So I spent the past months on a creative time of fasting and entered the black hole connected to the creative source that is so scary and awesome and lonesome.

    I was on a sort of inner quest for a while now and it culminated in a huge crisis point yesterday when I realized, I HAVE to say yes to the life time of supressed rage. I have had a reacurring dream of me as a (temple maiden?)some sort of keeper of keys who misbehaved somehow and was violently punished, cast down and chained and “abandoned”. The dispair and roaring fury turned me into a monster that caused people to shrink away in horror confirming their conviction that I needed to be chained, which added to the outrage and dispair etc, etc.

    I lost control yesterday (over house cleaning with NO HELP – NO ONE DOES ANYTHING AROUND HERE!!!! and all that – completely rantingly losing it, poor hubby and kids). Part of me was watching it happen and then I felt something that was like a large amount of helpful energy and “information” input. What was given to me was the feeling of needing, right then and there, to use all my will power to turn around mid stream and brave the torrents and whatever might come with them. I explained to my teenaged kids (roaringly, with tears of fury flowing,… talk about monster!) what was happening and that it was not their fault but that I feel I can’t get to my energy until I let this all through. I am so grateful for their warm (actually enthusiastic!) support!

    Then with a feeling of huge inner churning, I turned the “boat” about face to see what it is I am dealing with here. Ready to face the monster in its full size with a wide open heart.

    What happened was unexpected. I softened, relaxed and felt lifted by energy. The rage melted. The causes still all there somewhere but like the natural scars in the bark of a birch tree that you’d expect to see in some form or pattern. The day was easy from that moment onward. Easy in a way that I have no memory of having in these 47 years. I got everything done, never ran out of strength and, this morning, after a short night’s sleep woke up refreshed. Chronic fatigue gone!???!

    Here is the joke. When I turned my inner vessel around mid stream, I found myself not braving the torrent, but flowing with it, transported by it. All of the struggle, the exhaustion, the worry was from pressing my whole being against it.

    What was with me this morning is this: you belong to the Lilith stream but you have to recognize that you are not the power, not the river nor the source – you are the captain of your boat on the river. Go with the flow, jump in for swims, take care of your boat.

    Wow. Thanks Lilith!

  50. Osculating? They kissed? (Marilyn Monroe’s hips.) Oscillating means side-to-side motion.

  51. Hi Marina, I knew I had to hurry back to this thread of yours knowing your deep understanding of Lilith. I got wind of an event where I suspected BML transits at work – untimely death of Jesse Robredo. Looks like BML is transiting his natal Uranus at the time of his death plus other unfortunate transits. A very good case study.

  52. Oh Marina!

    How nice that some sort and bring out this kind of jewls!

    I did not know about these corridors you mention, though it is only logic and natural.

    My corridor is composed in the 12th (the real body), the Nineth (Osculant) and the 8th, the rest of the Lilliths.

    Maybe, I should only be strong spiritual (and not so rule-oriented, as I have been).



  53. I just found my Black Moon Lilith… sitting at 7 Libra (4th house). Ack!! With Sun next door at Libra 8, Pallas at Cancer 8 (1st house), and Eris at Aries 10 (10th house), my BML seems to be getting triggered by the Cardinal Cross/Uranus-Pluto activity. I also have 4th house Pluto conjunct IC and Uranus 3rd conjunct IC. Lots of issues surrounding “family” my whole life… most lately, I got married a couple of months ago and have been struggling around the idea of being “family” to my new teenage stepkids, who have rallied themselves emotionally around their bipolar type 1 (yes, officially diagnosed) mother. They suddenly forget, it seems, that this woman drove her daughter into the psych ward, and every member of *that* family was medicated on antidepressants in order to be able to live with her. Yet I have now become the “bad person.” Any thoughts about how to work with these difficult energies?

  54. Lilith in Libra/4th = scorned woman in the house of home/family? In my family of origin, I was obviously a “black sheep” and had a fraught relationship with my dad, who was the only male in our nuclear family … he and I had many power struggles early on, though I also idolized him as well.

    1. I have the same lilith 4th/libra and for me it wasn’t the same. Yes, i have been the black sheep either but in my case it’s about my step mother…

  55. Black moon in 11 house/ Aquarius –
    I have had a report done that says I have a prominent black moon.
    – sextile ascendant
    – square pluto
    – square saturn
    – sextile moon
    – square mars

    Can anyone give me more info on this? How does this play out.. Im new at this.

    1. Thats the problem with reports. How wide are the aspects. Which Lilith are they talking about Mean or True?
      I use a very narrow orb. 3º for the lights, 2.30′ for everything else. I do a Dark moon reading using both Liliths if you are interested. Dark Moon Reading $139

  56. Yesterday, Marina, I had a look to one´s friend chart. She does not have any gaps, any corridor. She has both Lilliths on the 2nd H. Sagg. And I was surprised…

    What would that mean?


  57. I can echo the black sheep thing: my Lilith corridor is in Capricorn with Mean a degree away from my Sun on one side and Juno on the other. It’s on the 3rd house side of my Root, that is Nadir but can also be read as vibrating in the 4th house since it’s in the same sign as the angle. Also True Lilith is close to nadir along with Ceres. The Wild Man speaks strongly through me and I think it freaked out my family who wanted me to be a good Roman/Civilized person…that is fully repressed and ignorant of the deeper layers of Mind. I’ve also always felt a strong connection to feminine consciousness that I had a hard time understanding when I was young. I had a hard time learning to value my male body I think because the male body is not considered sexy in the mainstream media-especially when it’s not hard and hairless. It’s always been hard for me to ignore the reality that sexual energy is at the root of the human bodymind. Until I found Chinese martial arts, the Taoist kind it kinda drove me crazy. Now I know how to circulate the energy so it’s not all stuck in my genitals. In Capricorn near the bottom of my chart I suppose Lilith has been drawing my mind down to my gut brain all this time. Also I learned how to cultivate my own sexual energy so I don’t have to project it onto women. Now Lilith doesn’t have to scream to get my attention.

  58. I think the true wild man energy flows out of guys who are in conscious touch with the feminine in their lives, minds and bodies. this is difficult for most men because there is an element of taboo. my dad embodied the wild man who has integrated the masculine and feminine in a wholesome and deeply soulful way. he was the most whole person i ever met, but he didn’t believe that he was. he ended up taking on too much of others’ pain and responsibility for the death of his mom and brother; he felt that since he was a doctor he should have been able to save them. his shadow side was Sun-Neptune & Moon-Pluto (drugs and sexual obsession), and he needed everyone’s approval and adulation as a God among men, a savior. he burnt out at 44. as his oldest daughter, i am carrying on his legacy moving from Neptune & Pluto to Chiron & Lilith, which i am starting to embrace more as my saturn return will be exact by his birthday at the end of the month.

  59. Hello Marina,

    I am wondering what the energies are between a man with a black moon lillith in virgo/ scorpio sun and a woman with a black moon lillith in scorpio/ virgo sun /leo ascendant? Is this a potent and ideal connection?

  60. can you post info regarding the planets in relationship to Lilith. example Venus Quincunx Black Moon Lilith(Lunar Apogee)

  61. I have Sun in 5’20 Scorpio conjunct retrograde True Black Moon in 5’42 Scorpio which is hard to isolate from my Ixion in 5’25 Scorpio and South Eris Node in 5’29 Scorpio.
    Sun-True Black Moon-Ixion-South Eris Node conjunction

    Ixion is a plutino (has 2:3 orbital resonance with Neptune like Pluto does) and transneptunian dwarf planet candidate.

    Eris is a scattered disk object (an object that has very high oribtal eccentricity,very high inclination, and a perihelion greater than 30 Astronomical Units) and transneptunian dwarf planet, and its nodes (two abstract points in space that symbolizes the entire motion of the particular object) are collective energy points.

  62. I just checked up the chart of a female client of mine,(I am a therapist) suspecting Lilith was starring strongly in her chart.. WELL!!.. Check this out!

    As if her sun in Scorpio and moon conjunct Pluto was not enough!

    Pluto conjunct ascendant with a True and mean Lilith corridor of 2.3 degrees with Pluto sandwiched between true and mean Lilith! Yikes!

    Well her profession gives it away really.. She is a erotic photographer and a producer of what she calls, “vanilla porn”. AND as the song goes, “she’s a man eater”, and no man ever stays around for long, that is why she is seeking therapy… Hmmm.. I wonder why?

    I think I will start weaving some astrological insights into my therapy sessions with clients! What amazing insights you can find using astrology! Cannot wait to hear what Marina finds in my natal chart reading!

  63. Marina, can you please explain (in short) the effect of “Black Moon Lilith trine your decan”?

  64. On astrodienst my chart list my Lilith in Aries. Do you know which Lilith this refers to? Also, it is conjunct my Aries Moon and trine my Sag Sun and Leo rising. How does this translate and what can I look up to study these aspects please and thank you.

  65. I have this little boklet about Black Moon Lilith (a guide to healing the shadow side), saying Black Moon Lilith symbolises our greatest fear, our weakest point.
    As there is so much guilt assosiated with sex I think it rimes well with your text.

  66. It is that pornography is gone now and the loss is tried to be compensated. Hence the above.
    God is not good but sadistic.

  67. Hi , I’m needing a question answered regarding which way I should go in a decision . I’m an Aries with rising sag & only just realised Lilith is currently in my sign ( which after researching all of a sudden EVERYTHING makes sense !) question is , although one should take caution , would you advise to reveal hard truths which i had planned to at the end of the month or reconsider it ? If I choose to do so , it will release a lot of which is holding me back & hopefully finally put an end to a chapter in my life where I’ve been used & knowing this needs to stop so I’m able to move on. On the other hand , these truths will upset a few people & cause havoc in the other parties life , but the truth does need to be revealed & true colours needing to be shown .
    What should i do ?

    1. Seems to me you have answered your own question – you say “truth does need to be revealed & true colours need to be shown” – you have stated the way forward. As a fellow Aries [also with Sag rising!] I would say use your innate Aries courage and follow what you feel to be true = what is best for you and the highest good for all, in the long-term.

      Good luck.

  68. I have Lilith aspectiing my Mid heaven. Venus conjunct the mid heaven quintIle Lilith. How does she aspect manifest itself. I can find very little info on line. Lilith also quintiles my Moon.
    Lilith in the 7th house in Sagittarius
    Venus conjunct Midheaven in Pisces

    1. I don’t use quintiles myself. I think It would be too subtle to count. Venus conjunct the MC far overrides that and remember your Venus may have properties you are assigning to Lilith. Venus is the witch, especially if retrograde or aspected by Saturn, Pluto or Eris. (I use the ptolemaic aspects plus the quincunx) Of course the prefix quin means 5 which is makes a 5 pointed star, a pentagram. Venus!

  69. my ex has BLM conjunct Algol …I have spent my life trying to protect my children from him
    My father had 3 planets conjuct Algol …moon, Uranus , Saturn
    So kids and I are free of Algol influence…in our charts…hopefully we graduated this test

    1. Are you using true Lilith or mean? For many years I used the mean version to find that it really isn’t that accurate. I’m not even sure that you can even use fixed stars with the lunar apogee anymore.

  70. Hi Marina . Am wondering about someone with BML conjunct Juno and Pallas in the 12th house ? all just few degrees away from each other so close conjunction . Do they mix together well . 7 degrees away is natal Moon @ 29 Scorpio thats also in 12th . aspects are squared except for a sextile to Vesta ! ,hence Any thoughts ?

  71. I have been trying to research my birth for years. I have known for 20 years that I was born on a cups if Sagittarius and Capricorn and winter solstice. I recently discovered that night and year was a dark moon. does all of this have any significance? over the 20 years, I have found my research to help guide me … any input?

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