Tropical V Sidereal Astrology

By | December 5, 2009

Initially with the sidereal V’s tropical debate I thought, “They can’t BOTH be right”. A member of our old Myspace forum, Phil, said: “The reason why the signs can seem like nonsense is because we’ve lost sight of their core character.” This is very true and I think it’s because of an unconscious blending of signs with their neighbours. This is most probably due to having to accommodate this sidereal and tropical paradox.

Further reading has enlightened me as to how both these Zodiacs can be used without either being “wrong”: “….. tropical astrology lends itself more to looking at the personality-level experience of a person, while sidereal astrology lends itself to viewing the more transcendent patterns and cycles of growth occurring for the durative soul in the incarnation. This is also why sidereal astrology is more ideal for exploring the nature of soul growth for the entire collective consciousness on Earth. You might also consider the tropical system to be looking upward from the incarnate experience, as the spiritually aspiring incarnate personality; while the sidereal system is looking downward upon the incarnate person from the soul-aware level of consciousness.” – Nick Anthony Fiorenza.” From The Lunar Planner Forum.

The signs are very obvious when you first look at a chart. If you see a Stellium in Capricorn. That’s what grabs you initially. If you see an aspect pattern, that is also what you focus on. These are usually the first things that hit you when you meet a person, their magnetism and general energy. Gradually you peel the onion. You deal with the personality traits (Aspects) that come out after you have known them for a while. The aspects, angles and fixed stars are common for both systems, so they really are the heart and soul of the person.

The Tropical system is a seasonal construct, it is more connected with mundane matters. I think it would be more to do with how your nearest and dearest expect you to be on this earth. Of course those expectations that are projected on you are absorbed and you begin to behave that way.  This won’t be such a big deal for most people, but stelliums in particular start to feel rather one dimensional. As someone who has tropically 4 personal planets and an MC in Aquarius, it’s hard for any Astrologer to not say how much I value my freedom, that I am incredibly humanitarian, am original, inventive etc etc.. But I got bored of hearing that, so much of my fire was missing. Until I discovered fixed stars!

For a while I toyed with the idea of  using the sidereal Zodiac, which is atleast more connected to the constellations from whence it came. But it’s not perfect. There are not 12 exact 30 degs divisions over those constellations either and we are missing Ophiuchus which also falls along the ecliptic. At least acknowledging there is a sidereal Zodiac throws into question how signs should be used and how much importance to give them, but in the end I chose to discard it anyway. I found even the Siderealists couldn’t agree with where to start their Zodiac either which added yet more confusion and it got very frustrated not being on the same page as 99% of western Astrologers.

UPDATE! This article was written back in 2009.  I have since changed some of my views expressed here, and will update this article when I have time. Since studying Traditional Astrology there is a lot more I could write why the Tropical Zodiac is not wrong and how both approaches can work. Essentially using the fixed stars IS bringing the sidereal zodiac into the tropical frame work. The tropical zodiac using rulerships is rich with meaning, and originally it was less about personalty and psychological traits and more about the condition of the signs ruler and its dignity. Specific character traits in my view actually come from the fixed stars, though tropical zodiac signs can give a general idea. See Zodiac Signs & National Stereotypes

11 thoughts on “Tropical V Sidereal Astrology

  1. marina

    Ah ha Lucy. Another person with no fire! Do we seem like fireless gals to you? Interesting… And NR you mention passion too. Can you feel the passionate flames of “…no Fire”? (!)
    I think it’s refreshing to look at one’s chart through another lens. I completely balked at my new Taurean AC since I had been slagging of Venus in favour of Persephone over the past view weeks. (Hallo shadow…)
    If you know how to read a tropical chart, then you know how to read a western sidereal chart I reckon. The only new thing about it I think is getting to know the history.
    Also once you know about the two systems you start automatically teaching yourself I find, it’s very intuitive.. It’s a bit like going from PC to Mac actually! (I have a Mac:)))

  2. Vallin

    I’m actually a Sidereal Skorpion, too; with a Stellium. I’m hard-core. But I believe that popular astrologers have a broader marketing agenda than accuracy permits (think Reagan-era). The humorous “dark astrology” sub-genre is actually much more accurate at sign-planet characterizations (humor is a path to the truth: ‘How To Spot A Bastard’ is spot on about my tribe).

    I like Crowley’s Astrology book; anticipating its entry into public domain. I’ve been trying to post this link to one of his articles, and here is a good a place as any:

    1. Marina Post author

      Yes you are totally right about the broader marketing agenda. We look at our competitors and none of the big shots do personalised readings. Its so easy for them to churn out prewritten reports. But the way we work its impossible to do that. One thing those reports cant do is break down an aspects pattern. If you had a Yod in your chart it would totally ignore it.

      For general reading now I use the constellational zodiac. Here’s an example:

      But I am interested to use the sidereal Zodiacs in synastry work. Blaschke says Sidereal to tropical conjunctions will show relationships that are completing karma. these will be those you are saying goodbye to in this life time. I have yet to test this out.

      I think maybe the sidereal zodiac might show our last dance as whatever personality trait it shows up in the signs. Maybe this is my last life as a workaholic and bossy boots and your as the hardcore scorpion.

      Thanks for the link. I love this site for free esoteric books. Will read that later. Looks like my cup of tea.

      1. Marina

        Oh how mad. I agreed with Crowley before I’d read the article. Gotta love his view of women though, feeble in the hands of astrologer huh? I think (Well I’m hoping) the public are becoming more informed now and that means astrologers have to try a lot harder. All our clients seem well clued up :))

        1. Vallin

          Well he wrote this before 1914, and he is Victorian after all. But I discovered that that same site also has his astrology (sun-sign) book. I didn’t recognize the title until last night. The leather-bound copy I saw in Borders on Park Av., NYC was $80–out-ta’ my league!

  3. D

    Ok..just my humble opinion..

    But, I think nowadays anything that is elusive and difficult to grasp we call it ‘soul-level’ to avoid the responsibility of explaining it further.
    Have you read the draconic chart explanations? It’s a ‘soul-level chart’.. deeper like the ‘onion-layers’, I bet I read the same words describing the draconic chart and comparing it with the ‘ego level’ natal chart.

    I am not discrediting anything..I have seen some amazing synastry between a person’s tropical and another’s draconic or sidereal chart that made sense of why they were together that could not be seen from trop/trop synastry but are astrologers sure that’s the definition they want to assign to these charts?

    1. Marina Macario Post author

      Wow, thanks for digging up this old post for me. Sorely in need of updating! I have made some edits. I think I might agree with you about using the words “soul level” which can make things quite nebulous in Astrology.

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